John Summerfield wrote: > David Boles wrote: >> John Summerfield wrote: > > >>> I know that Ubuntu went to considerable trouble to get Ubuntu working >>> well on laptops a two or three releases ago. I do not know the status of >>> wireless on Ubuntu, but I suspect it's been better in other respects >>> (power management, hibernation) on laptops for a while. >>> >>> I know wireless on opensuse 10.2 sucks pretty badly, but I really can't >>> say whether other distros do it better or worse. >>> >>> Not knowing, I crossed out Linux and substituted Fedora. >>> >>> >>> In this case, I'm assuming working drivers; I have Atheros-based cards >>> and I can get a working driver for them. Having done that, on Fedora, >>> wireless still sucks. >>> >>> And my statement is an observation, not an attribution of blame. >>> Attributing blame just gets arguments, but anyone who extols the wonders >>> of Linux wireless networking to a Windows or OS X user deserves >>> derision. >> >> >> I was not trying to be 'nasty' John. I asked because I was/am curious. > > I didn't think you were:-) > > >> My boss wants me to start using a laptop, I do not like laptops, never >> have, but I was looking for some Linux information. The last laptop I >> 'had' my secretary nicknamed 'David's paperweight ;-) because that is >> what I used it for mostly. >> >> As near as I can tell - if you want problems use certain WiFi devices >> and any Linux. Really want problems? Use something, anything, assembled >> by Dell. I do not know why but those seem to be the start of most >> problems and/or complaints that I have read. >> >> I gather that the WiFi problem is lack of drivers? Which, as I read, is >> a problem with Vista too. The manufacturers waited too long to provide >> Microsoft with generic drivers or to write their own 'good'drivers. >> Video drivers too. It seems that Linux drivers are few and far between. > > A problem is drivers. Atheros cards are well-supported (I know this > because I have several), but the madwifi driver includes a binary blob, > so Linux distributors are loath to include the driver. It is, however, > in some after-market repos, and downloading it from madwifi.org isn't a > great drama. > > A reason that part of the Atheros driver is a binary blob has to do with > US law and things the wireless could do if it were unconstrained. There > is an alternative driver, available from the same location, that seems > better suited to distro vendors' requirements, but I've not tried it. > OTOH I have seen messages that suggest might be distributed, but I've > not set eyes on it. > > Intersil plays pretty nicely and provides information and help to those > who would write a driver. See prism54.org. Unfortunately, it's some time > since I found a prism54-based card on the market. > > TI and Broadcom are very secretive, but reverse-engineers have been at > work and some broadcoms work. Got a Mac? > > Intel seems tp play nicely and writes drivers (or helps write drivers), > but not having any Intel wireless I've not actually tried. I do see > problems with the latest Intel wireless from time to time. > > I have an Acer laptop (a cheapie, suggest you keep away from them) that > has built-in wireless. I first installed OpenSUSE 10.0 on it; at that > time OpenSUSE included the madwifi driver, but no more. > > I now use a Thinkpad r40, a good one, and it's got openSUSE 10.2 on it. > I added the madwifi driver, it works. To my surprise, the infernal modem > works. > > Thinkpad T-series are reputed to be about the best for Linux, and if The > Boss will pay for one, take it:-) - Make sure you pick a high-end one; > my R40 has a 1440x1050 screen, but most R40s don't have that good a > resolution. > > Some vendors, HP, Acer, Dell and (I think) Lenovo, maybe others, ship > Linux preinstalled in some locations. if The Boss (and you) think those > will do, if you can't get a Linux preload, then try to get the same > model with Windows. A Knoppix CD and application of ntfsresize (is it on > Fedora Live? I dunno) will soon make some space. > > > > >> >> As for Dell? I read it is poorly supported, inexpensive hardware, that >> is their major problem. Again this I do *not* know. I have never owned, >> or used, anything Dell. I only know what I have read and what I have >> been told by others. >> >> Your thoughts on any of this? > > there's Dells and there's Dells. I would only consider a Latitude. I > don't have a good opinion of any consumer grade kit, it seems low-spec > and built to a price. However, I've never owned a Dell Laptop, and a > Dell Optiplex GC270 gave me a hard time. > > > The reason I say Wireless on Fedora sucks is that the wireless > configuration tools just are not up to it. My Mac will automatically > associate with any AP I've already introduced it to. I don't have to > remember the password/WEP key or whatever. My Thinkpad, running openSUSE > 10.2, couldn't even remember the WPA password for my daughter's wireless > router when I visited last month, even without connecting to anything > else in the meantime. It would not configure wireless unless I logged in > to the GUI. It won't enable wire and wireless at the same time. > > From what I've seen here, I don't think Fedora would do better, I didn't > have wireless in runlevel 3; I don't think I tried wired-only networking > while running networkmanager. > > At work we have four or five APs, and I often carry a laptop around (I'm > the IT bloke). The Mac associates with whichever when I open the lid. Thank you. That is a very clear explanation. The 'boss' like's Lenovo and is talking about a Thinkpad T61. Whatever that is. As I said - not a laptop fan. Keyboard is odd shaped and keys too small for my 'monkey fist' style of typing. Thanks again. -- David
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