Re: f8: NetworkManager + runlevel 3 problem

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John Summerfield wrote:
> David Boles wrote:
>> John Summerfield wrote:
> 
> 
>>> I know that Ubuntu went to considerable trouble to get Ubuntu working
>>> well on laptops a two or three releases ago. I do not know the status of
>>> wireless on Ubuntu, but I suspect it's been better in other respects
>>> (power management, hibernation) on laptops for a while.
>>>
>>> I know wireless on opensuse 10.2 sucks pretty badly, but I really can't
>>> say whether other distros do it better or worse.
>>>
>>> Not knowing, I crossed out Linux and substituted Fedora.
>>>
>>>
>>> In this case, I'm assuming working drivers; I have Atheros-based cards
>>> and I can get a working driver for them. Having done that, on Fedora,
>>> wireless still sucks.
>>>
>>> And my statement is an observation, not an attribution of blame.
>>> Attributing blame just gets arguments, but anyone who extols the wonders
>>> of Linux wireless networking to a Windows or OS X user deserves
>>> derision.
>>
>>
>> I was not trying to be 'nasty' John. I asked because I was/am curious.
> 
> I didn't think you were:-)
> 
> 
>> My boss wants me to start using a laptop, I do not like laptops, never
>> have, but I was looking for some Linux information. The last laptop I
>> 'had' my secretary nicknamed 'David's paperweight  ;-)  because that is
>> what I used it for mostly.
>>
>> As near as I can tell - if you want problems use certain WiFi devices
>> and any Linux. Really want problems? Use something, anything, assembled
>> by Dell. I do not know why but those seem to be the start of most
>> problems and/or complaints that I have read.
>>
>> I gather that the WiFi problem is lack of drivers? Which, as I read, is
>> a problem with Vista too. The manufacturers waited too long to provide
>> Microsoft with generic drivers or to write their own 'good'drivers.
>> Video drivers too. It seems that Linux drivers are few and far between.
> 
> A problem is drivers. Atheros cards are well-supported (I know this
> because I have several), but the madwifi driver includes a binary blob,
> so Linux distributors are loath to include the driver. It is, however,
> in some after-market repos, and downloading it from madwifi.org isn't a
> great drama.
> 
> A reason that part of the Atheros driver is a binary blob has to do with
> US law and things the wireless could do if it were unconstrained. There
> is an alternative driver, available from the same location, that seems
> better suited to distro vendors' requirements, but I've not tried it.
> OTOH I have seen messages that suggest might be distributed, but I've
> not set eyes on it.
> 
> Intersil plays pretty nicely and provides information and help to those
> who would write a driver. See prism54.org. Unfortunately, it's some time
> since I found a prism54-based card on the market.
> 
> TI and Broadcom are very secretive, but reverse-engineers have been at
> work and some broadcoms work. Got a Mac?
> 
> Intel seems tp play nicely and writes drivers (or helps write drivers),
> but not having any Intel wireless I've not actually tried. I do see
> problems with the latest Intel wireless from time to time.
> 
> I have an Acer laptop (a cheapie, suggest you keep away from them) that
> has built-in wireless. I first installed OpenSUSE 10.0 on it; at that
> time OpenSUSE included the madwifi driver, but no more.
> 
> I now use a Thinkpad r40, a good one, and it's got openSUSE 10.2 on it.
> I added the madwifi driver, it works. To my surprise, the infernal modem
> works.
> 
> Thinkpad T-series are reputed to be about the best for Linux, and if The
>  Boss will pay for one, take it:-) - Make sure you pick a high-end one;
> my R40 has a 1440x1050 screen, but most R40s don't have that good a
> resolution.
> 
> Some vendors, HP, Acer, Dell and (I think) Lenovo, maybe others, ship
> Linux preinstalled in some locations. if The Boss (and you) think those
> will do, if you can't get a Linux preload, then try to get the same
> model with Windows. A Knoppix CD and application of ntfsresize (is it on
> Fedora Live? I dunno) will soon make some space.
> 
> 
> 
> 
>>
>> As for Dell? I read it is poorly supported, inexpensive hardware, that
>> is their major problem. Again this I do *not* know. I have never owned,
>> or used, anything Dell. I only know what I have read and what I have
>> been told by others.
>>
>> Your thoughts on any of this?
> 
> there's Dells and there's Dells. I would only consider a Latitude. I
> don't have a good opinion of any consumer grade kit, it seems low-spec
> and built to a price. However, I've never owned a Dell Laptop, and a
> Dell Optiplex GC270 gave me a hard time.
> 
> 
> The reason I say Wireless on Fedora sucks is that the wireless
> configuration tools just are not up to it. My Mac will automatically
> associate with any AP I've already introduced it to. I don't have to
> remember the password/WEP key or whatever. My Thinkpad, running openSUSE
> 10.2, couldn't even remember the WPA password for my daughter's wireless
> router when I visited last month, even without connecting to anything
> else in the meantime. It would not configure wireless unless I logged in
> to the GUI. It won't enable wire and wireless at the same time.
> 
> From what I've seen here, I don't think Fedora would do better, I didn't
> have wireless in runlevel 3; I don't think I tried wired-only networking
> while running networkmanager.
> 
> At work we have four or five APs, and I often carry a laptop around (I'm
> the IT bloke). The Mac associates with whichever when I open the lid.


Thank you. That is a very clear explanation. The 'boss' like's Lenovo
and is talking about a Thinkpad T61. Whatever that is.

As I said - not a laptop fan. Keyboard is odd shaped and keys too small
for my 'monkey fist' style of typing.

Thanks again.

-- 


  David


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