On Thu, 2006-11-09 at 14:33 -0700, Kim Lux wrote: > On Thu, 2006-11-09 at 14:04 -0700, Ashley M. Kirchner wrote: > > Kim Lux wrote: > > > Here is my post on the subject: > > > > > > "When I install a new kernel, my > > > mouse doesn't quit working !" > > > > > > I didn't say the kernel provides mouse support in X ! > > By making the statement you made above, you are suggesting that. > > No, I don't. I'm saying that when I install a kernel my mouse doesn't > quit ! That is it. That is all the sentence says. > > > Now, if you said, 'when I install a new gmp rpm, my mouse doesn't quit > > working', that would make a much better argument. > > No it wouldn't. The typical user doesn't know anything about a mouse > driver. Doesn't need to. Shouldn't have to. It is a reasonable > expectation that nothing quits when a new kernel is installed ! > > > The kernel has > > nothing to do with the mouse, don't compare apples and oranges. You > > will lose that battle. > > Users shouldn't have to know if the kernel has anything to do with the > mouse or not. Just that the mouse shouldn't quit when they change > kernels ! Get it ? > > > The issue here is that nvidia relies (heavily) on the kernel and > > thus ties into several aspects of it. > > So do other pieces of hardware. > > > Under STABLE circumstances, this > > works fine (as many have already told you.) > > Ummm... sorry, but it doesn't. > > First of all, thanks once again for introducing the red herring concept > of me running a test kernel. If you keep repeating a red herring, > sooner or later some people might get confused, but not really. > > If you read my original post, you'll note that I had problems building a > driver for kernel 2798. As far as I know that kernel is considered > stable. After all, it is running on most fc6 boxes. > > And the fact that the build failed is also irrelevant. > > THE RELEVANT POINT IN THIS WHOLE DISCUSSION IS THAT USERS HAVE TO > *BUILD* A DRIVER IN ORDER TO RUN THE NVIDIA HARDWARE, unless they can > live with what the non proprietary driver does. (Caps for emphasis, not > shouting !) > You also obviously are overlooking (intentionally or otherwise) the comment about the i586 kernel install with the i386 arch on fc6. This is a bug that has been beat to death on this list. That simple bug fix would have prevented your compile/install of the nvidia driver and would have allowed the yum install from livna to work. No one I know has to *BUILD* an nvidia driver for use with any *released* kernel for FC6. A simple yum install takes care of that. > > But once again, you fail to > > comprehend that. You want to run test kernels, that's fine. But don't > > expect everything to work, otherwise it wouldn't be a test kernel. > > This has NOTHING to do with being a test kernel. Are you dense ? The > nvidia driver has to be built for EVERY kernel and for me the failure > rate on that build is probably 50%. > > > The > > NTFS module also ties in to the kernel, and when there are kernel > > updates, I have to wait a day or two to actually install the kernel > > because the NTFS module hasn't been applied to the new one yet. > > Funny, I run ntfs on our server and I don't know a darn thing about how > it ties into the kernel ! I run yum update on the server, it does its > thing and I'm done. ntfs has never failed to run when I've rebooted. > That is the way software is supposed to work. > > > But > > that's just it, I WAIT FOR IT because I know it makes absolutely no > > sense in running the new kernel while not having the updated drivers, > > and then come bitch and moan that things don't work. Get that into your > > mind please: everything will, at some point or another, lack behind a > > kernel update. > > Funny, but the only thing that lags behind a kernel update for me is > nvidia, now that I run bcm43xx instead of ndiswrapper. > > > It's YOUR responsibility to make sure you have the > > correct drivers, modules, and/or patches BEFORE you update your kernel. > > Well, funny thing about that, with nvida YOU CAN'T ! At this point I > would like to know if you have ever built an Nvidia driver ? > > Here is the thing... as far as I know, one can only build an Nvidia > driver for the kernel that they are running. Maybe the wizards know a > way around this, but, like I said before, I have a life outside of > Linux ! So what happens is you boot with the Nvidia driver and then you > build it and that is when you find out if it works or not. > > > Whether the nvidia folks decide to take 24 hours or 24 days to release > > an update, that's THEIR call, and they will have a reason to do that. > > And to hell with the Linux folks and what they need. Because here is > the thing... I don't have to wait 24 hours or 24 days for the ntfs > driver or the mouse driver or any of that. It just seems to be there > when the kernel is ready. I have yet to update a kernel and lose use of > ntfs or my mouse ! > > > How many times haven't you heard Microsoft delaying a critical update, > > while other third party companies have already released theirs? They > > have a reason to, whether it's for more testing or because the guy > > responsible is taking a long piss. > > See, now open source software is different for all the other drivers > other than those from nvidia. That is my point ! The source is there > and when the kernel gets built, so does the latest driver with all the > recent updates in it. Its a beautiful system ! Kudos to Linus and the > boys on a job very, very well done. I won't say what I think of nvidia > being the exception to this system ! > > > GET OVER IT and deal with the fact > > that YOU, and only YOU made the choice to run test kernels on your > > hardware. No one told you that you must. > > Once again this has NOTHING to do with running test kernels ! If I > change kernels right now, to one I have run before, guess what ? I have > to build another Nvidia driver ! Doesn't matter if the kernel is a bit > torrent from www.kernel.org or 2.4.x ! Livna *might* have a driver > built for it, but then again, they might not. Funny, I don't have to go > to my mouse manufacturers and download an install script for my mouse ! > > > Once again, if you want to run test kernels, DO NOT EXPECT > > EVERYTHING TO WORK WITH THEM. It's the whole nature of being a test > > kernel (or any other package for that matter.) > > Once again, nothing to do with the fact its a test kernel ! > > > It's for people to find > > the problems and report them, and not for you to come bitching and > > moaning because you lost some precious 60 minutes of your life. You > > know what, I couldn't care less how much time you lost. > > I didn't expect you to care about how much time I lost, I expected you > to realize that there is some potential to improve Linux in this regard > and focus on that. > > -- > Kim Lux, Diesel Research Inc. > >
