On Wed, 2010-05-26 at 17:24 -0400, Gene Heskett wrote: > OTOH, one must be subscribed to said lists in order to participate. That's right! If you want to participate in Fedora, you need to subscribe to the mailing lists where projects are happening! > Those of > us who have varied interests are generally subscribed to more mailing lists > than we can handle by making timely, on topic and expert responses to the > list we are on. To demand that we subscribe to YAML just to participate in > your often petty squabbles over the color themes etc, is to be blunt, asking > for way too much. My present folder count in kmail is 49, more than screen > height I'm subscribed to some 100+ open source mailing lists. I understand what you're saying, but I do not understand how that impacts the fact that 3 mailing lists were involved in the design discussion. What do you propose I should have done? Send the designs to every single Fedora list? Do you see how that is not feasible nor sustainable? > We assume there are intelligent people doing this, and at times methinks we > assume too much. Thanks! Underhanded barbs about my intelligence rock! I'm so excited right now, I can't wait to read the rest of your email! What new and exciting insults might it bring? > So when you go live with a brand new page that seems poorly > organized, Thank you for using the word "seems" there. > there really should have been links to it made available on this > list, say 2 weeks prior, 2 weeks prior is too late. String freeze. There's a lot of folks who use Fedora who don't speak English. > so we could at least pull a screen shot. and fuss if > it really is that bad. Me, I googled for it, and hit the right page on the > first try, but that was only because someone already suggested that was it. > > >> The Vogons had their plans for the destruction of Earth on file in the > >> galactic office on Alpha-Centauri too :-). > > > >I think you can agree with me that comparison is unfair as the designs > >were actively discussed across many public forums widely known to and > >read by Fedora contributors, as I already outlined for you. Please be > >reasonable. > > But not the users forum/mailing list, so you are carrying this on in a > relative vacuum in terms of the number of 'users' you are using. I'm sorry, but Fedora Planet is not a vacuum. Nor is Fedora Weekly News. Are folks on this list really unaware of those forums? > > IMO, that is no ones fault but your own... Huh? > >> > I appreciate your effort in trying to participate, but I hope you can > >> > see how your feedback would easily be interpreted as non-constructive > >> > and inflammatory. Especially when I gave you an example link to where > >> > the design was posted last fall, and you reply that you wouldn't have > >> > bothered to look at it. It makes it seem as if you are not really > >> > interested in helping, only complaining. > >> > >> If Ford gave me an opportunity to look at their plans for redesigned > >> controls in their new line of cars, I wouldn't bother to look at that > >> either because I wouldn't think they would be idiotic enough to remove > >> the brake pedal since, after all, the car will stop anyway when it > >> hits something :-). > > > >As I already explained clearly: torrents, jigdo, and mirrors are not > >required to download and enjoy Fedora. These alternative and in some > >cases niche methods for downloading Fedora are not essential for > >actually obtaining Fedora. Furthermore, these methods have not been > >taken away, they have simply been de-listed from the main download > >pages. They still exist, and the folks who desire those alternative > >methods I should hope, being smart enough to understand how to install > >and run a torrent client, are also completely capable of Googling the > >extremely obvious links (e.g., torrent.fedoraproject.org) should they > >not already be aware of them. > > > >Your analogy is completely insufficient and ill-fitting for this > >scenario. A more accurate analogy to Ford removing the brakes from a car > >design would be Fedora removing the installer from the distro. > > So is yours, from the users viewpoint. Or is that not understandable? I didn't make an analogy. What user? Many, many different types of users use Fedora for different things in different ways. Please don't assume everyone is like you or that Fedora only caters to users like you. > > >> Complaining after the fact is the only possible response available > >> when something you couldn't imagine happening in your wildest dreams > >> is foisted on you. You can't spend 24 hours a day trying to guess > >> what cliques of developers are off planning the next disaster so > >> you can attempt to constructively participate ahead of time and > >> head them off. > > > >Make a decision - contribute, or don't contribute. If you're going to > >contribute, then follow the design and development of the distro. If > >you're not going to contribute, don't be rude to those who did. No one > >is asking you to guess, I am just trying to let you know that you could > >have participated if you really cared to and pointed out your concern > >much earlier. It's all done out in the open! > > No it isn't. When you restrict such discussions to a specialized mailing > list only, you are shooting yourself in the foot. If you are low on ammo, > let me know what caliber you need and I'll check my supplies. Email agents > all have pretty decent sorting abilities if you would like to sort by > subject. AHEM. Please allow me to reiterate the many places the design discussion took place. This is but a mere excerpt: - Multiple blog posts on the redesign posted to Planet Fedora, Planet GNOME, Graphics Planet, all of the other sites that syndicate this content (many, Google and see) - Fedora Weekly News - Fedora websites mailing list - Fedora logistics mailing list - Fedora design mailing list - Multiple IRC channels including #fedora-websites I don't want to even guess at what your ammo analogy is hinting at. CHEERS ~m -- users mailing list users@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines
