On Wed, 2010-05-26 at 16:09 -0400, Tom Horsley wrote: > On Wed, 26 May 2010 14:56:31 -0400 > Máirín Duffy wrote: > > > There were multiple blog posts on the redesign posted to Planet Fedora > > [1] (and syndicated to many other Linux & open source-related blog > > planets) over a period of several months, as well as mentioned on Fedora > > Weekly News [2], discussed on the Fedora websites mailing list, > > logistics mailing list, and design mailing list. > > But not, of course, on the fedora users list I guess, the list where > the folks who are actually going to use this stuff hang out. Unfortunately, mailing lists aren't the best communication medium for sharing designs and getting feedback on them. It's pretty much a nightmare dealing with flames and trying to sift through hundreds of mails to get the few nuggets of useful feedback typically procured through a mailing list-based feedback process. I do think it would be hard to argue announcing and actively discussing the design on three separate Fedora mailing lists was not sufficient enough mailing list exposure! > The Vogons had their plans for the destruction of Earth on file in the > galactic office on Alpha-Centauri too :-). I think you can agree with me that comparison is unfair as the designs were actively discussed across many public forums widely known to and read by Fedora contributors, as I already outlined for you. Please be reasonable. > > > I appreciate your effort in trying to participate, but I hope you can > > see how your feedback would easily be interpreted as non-constructive > > and inflammatory. Especially when I gave you an example link to where > > the design was posted last fall, and you reply that you wouldn't have > > bothered to look at it. It makes it seem as if you are not really > > interested in helping, only complaining. > > If Ford gave me an opportunity to look at their plans for redesigned > controls in their new line of cars, I wouldn't bother to look at that > either because I wouldn't think they would be idiotic enough to remove > the brake pedal since, after all, the car will stop anyway when it > hits something :-). As I already explained clearly: torrents, jigdo, and mirrors are not required to download and enjoy Fedora. These alternative and in some cases niche methods for downloading Fedora are not essential for actually obtaining Fedora. Furthermore, these methods have not been taken away, they have simply been de-listed from the main download pages. They still exist, and the folks who desire those alternative methods I should hope, being smart enough to understand how to install and run a torrent client, are also completely capable of Googling the extremely obvious links (e.g., torrent.fedoraproject.org) should they not already be aware of them. Your analogy is completely insufficient and ill-fitting for this scenario. A more accurate analogy to Ford removing the brakes from a car design would be Fedora removing the installer from the distro. > Complaining after the fact is the only possible response available > when something you couldn't imagine happening in your wildest dreams > is foisted on you. You can't spend 24 hours a day trying to guess > what cliques of developers are off planning the next disaster so > you can attempt to constructively participate ahead of time and > head them off. Make a decision - contribute, or don't contribute. If you're going to contribute, then follow the design and development of the distro. If you're not going to contribute, don't be rude to those who did. No one is asking you to guess, I am just trying to let you know that you could have participated if you really cared to and pointed out your concern much earlier. It's all done out in the open! I can't spend 24 hours a day trying to guess what users are going to think of the designs I create to help improve things for them, but I can most certainly post those designs to multiple mailing lists, blogs, and other public community discussions forums to gather as much feedback as I can from them. And I do. ~m -- users mailing list users@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines
