Les Mikesell wrote: > Mikkel L. Ellertson wrote: > >> That is because they use more rational configuration method. > > No they don't. Have you built a kernel from scratch that included > everything that fedora includes? Or apache with all the modules built? > It isn't fun - or very rational. However, you don't have to do that if > you install fedora. The point of the packaged distribution is that the > work is already done and maintained. > What does this have to do with configuring a service? You are really having to struggle to come up with something to justify your position. That should tell you something. >> Maybe >> if Sendmail did as well, it could be treated the more like other >> services. > > Sendmail does give you the opportunity to use a pre-built configuration. > Fedora just doesn't provide one that gives the upstream functionality. > And this relates to how easy it is to change the sendmail configuration how? >> This is the key - services with standard specifications. Sendmail is >> non-standard when compared to other services. > > There are standard specifications for mail behavior. None of the other > programs follow any standards for config files. How you make it do it > doesn't matter. > Oh, now you are saying that having to make a change in sendmail.mc, and then generate a new sendmail.cf file doesn't matter. If that is so, then what iis your problem with the current configuration? >> So why should it be >> treated like other services. Or are you saying that there should be >> a configuration program that directly modifies sendmail.cf? > > To put it in line with the way other fedora configurations work, > sendmail.mc should include lines from a directory under /etc/sysconfig > that would control a few common options and allow milters to add > themselves independently. There might be a system-config-sendmail > utility that controlled the settings of those optional lines. Like > other services, users should not need to edit the configs directly > unless they have non-standard environments. > Hmm - there is a file in /etc/sysconfig that controls how Sendmail starts - this is the same as other daemons have. Or are you saying that Sendmail should get special treatment here, but not other places? To make something like this work, the startup script for Sendmail check the time stamps on sendmail.cf and /etc/sysconfig/sendmail and rebuild sendmail.cf before starting sendmail. This would require everyone that runs Sendmail to install M4 and the Sendmail configuration package even if they have no need to change the default configuration. Now, as far as non-standard environments, needing Sendmail to accept connections from the Internet is a non-standard environment. Most machines are not going to be an Internet mail server. So why should the default configuration support it? From a security standpoint, it is better to not accept connections from outside the machine unless they are needed. This is why services like Apache, POP3, etc are not turned on by default. Because a local mail server is needed for proper operation of the system, Sendmail runs by default, but it runs locked down. This works just fine for most users, and for the ones it doesn't, there is a lot more configuration then just enabling it to listen to other interfaces then 127.0.0.1. >> If you >> want a mail program that can be configured like other services, then >> you need a mail server that is configured like other services. > > No you don't. You need the distribution to handle it the way it does > the gazillion other programs it includes. > And how is that? Be specific. Explain, in detail, how you want Sendmail to be handled. Not vague statements that do not tell us anything except that you don't the way things are done. Then explain how Sendmail can be configured this way, considering the way you have to configure Sendmail. After all, you can not configure Sendmail by just editing a config file the way you can most other packages. But even if it was, it would not be the only program you have to configure by hand. >> You keep harping that Sendmail should accept incoming mail by >> default, > > I'm not sure I've ever said exactly that, but you keep saying I said it > for some reason. I'm saying enabling or disabling its access to the > network should be handled the way the distribution handles other programs. > Explain this. Or are you saying that the only thing necessary to reconfigure Sendmail from a local machine only mail server to a network mail server is to enable it to listen to other interfaces? >> but you never give a valid reason why that should be the >> default. Everything I hear comes back to "That is the way I use it, >> so it should be configured that way." > > Email would not be useful if someone doesn't accept network connections. > So even if not everyone needs it, clearly some do. > So what? That is about as smart as Microsoft starting a web server on every server because some people might need it. That is very poor security. If you need it, you turn it on as part of the other configuration you need to do to turn a stand-alone mail server into a network mail server. >> What you can't seam to grasp >> is that your setup will work for maybe 1% of the users. > > OK, if those are the ones that are making email work for the rest of the > others, I'd consider them too important to ignore. > But they are not. So that argument falls flat too. The setup you talk about would work for a stand-alone mail server. A small network mail server requires more configuration. A large network requires a lot more. Are you trying to say that someone would use Fedora in a production environment and be able to use the stock configuration if it listened to other interfaces? I find that hard to believe. Mikkel -- Do not meddle in the affairs of dragons, for thou art crunchy and taste good with Ketchup!
