on 6/23/2007 7:12 AM, Matthew Saltzman wrote: > On Fri, 2007-06-22 at 18:20 -0700, David Boles wrote: >> on 6/22/2007 5:54 PM, Matthew Saltzman wrote: >>> On Fri, 2007-06-22 at 16:16 -0700, David Boles wrote: >>>> on 6/22/2007 3:50 PM, Matthew Saltzman wrote: >>>>> I know that. It's still a bug, and your claim that Karl is >>>>> hallucinating is still incorrect. And gnome-volume-manager is obviously >>>>> not gnome-volume-control (though Karl still seems confused on that >>>>> point). There is no package called gnome-volume-control, but there is a >>>>> program called gnome-volume-control and it's in the package gnome-media. >>>>> And nothing in my message or the message I replied to made any reference >>>>> whatsoever to gnome-volume-manager. >>>> You are correct sir in all that you say. And as I have tried to explain to >>>> Karl I don't have the problem that you two have. Never have had it. Works >>>> today. I am checking and un-checking and moving the sliders as I type >>>> this, well when I stop typing this, and the music that is playing starts >>>> and stops and the volume rises and falls as I do. >>>> >>>> The last real problem I have had with Linux was getting a 'Zip Drive' to >>>> work. And that was a long, long time ago. Probably seven or eight years >>>> ago. Maybe I'm just lucky? Or don't have any strange hardware? >>> Or something. So Karl and I have different hardware and similar >>> problems, but another machine I have at home with FC6 and a SB Live! >>> shows a normal volume control. I'm going to install F7 on that this >>> weekend, so we'll see. And the latest incarnation of the volume control >>> on my laptop actually did let me set the mic level enough to be able to >>> Skype. >>> >>> It's just kind of unhelpful to suggest (as you seemed to) that just >>> because you don't have the problem, it doesn't exist. There are more >>> combinations of hardware and software and versions in heaven and earth >>> than are dreamt of in your philosophy. >> I never said that just because I did not have this problem that it does >> not exist. This, fedora-usrs, is a list were people come with problems. So > > I believe the term you used was PEBKAC. It is not polite to speak about others behind their back. But I stand by what I said *to* him. IMHO pebkac fits. He writes like a very frustrated Linux Newbie. And BTW we were all Newbies at one time. He has been his own worst enemy with some of this. It si *never* a good idea to try to solve a problem before you actually know and understand just what the problem is. And the 'shotgun method' Is usually what is tried by many >> what would you expect here. People writing and saying - Great job - no >> problems here? > > People do, occasionally. I have, myself. But you're right, generally > people start new threads because they are seeking confirmation of or > help with a problem. Good for you and I have also. But five or ten complements out of how many users is not a large number. The Fedora people have to live with something that is completely against human nature. A small number of complaints / problems means success. >> Here is a page with some numbers for you to look at in a free moment. >> >> http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Statistics >> >> If you look at them it will see that the number is much greater that the >> two of you. >> >> This is what the development branch, Rawhide, does. Changes, enhancements, >> new features, new versions do not always, usually don't work actually, >> work right at first. The test releases that Fedora produces are to try and >> ring out the final problems. Fresh installs of a system can do that. That >> is if enough people try. Does it work? Surprisingly well. But there is >> always someone, somewhere, with some device or piece of hardware that >> seems to fail. Not everything works out-of-the-box for all. But I do >> think that the people that work on Fedora do a very good job at it. >> >> It would help a lot if users would actually read the Release Notes, the >> FAQ's and the known problems with solutions information *before* they just >> install. Honestly and truly. Think about that. > > Sure. In F7's case, nothing there about gstreamer or volume controls. And you wonder why there is nothing there? Really? Out of, lets pick a really small number I am sure the number is greater, 100,000 Fedora 7 users there are two with this reported problem. When you installed Fedora 7 did you send, opt-in, the Smolt data? If you did not how would you expect Fedora to know what to work to improve support. >> No one ever, that I can recall, said that they would not help. >> >> BTW - You should tell Karl that he needs to fix is Bugzilla report. It is >> aimed at the wrong package. The maintainer ot the 'wrong package' will >> tell him eventually but it would be brought to the attention of the >> correct person more quickly. > > I did, and he has. The Bugzilla report is very vague. There will be requests for more, detailed information. -- David
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