On Thursday 23 February 2006 06:19, Wolfgang wrote: >On Thu, 2006-02-23 at 18:06 +1030, Tim wrote: >> Wolfgang Gill wrote: >> >>> Nope it doesn't matter. Drive selects are done with jumpers on >> >>> the drive. All IDE 40/80 pin cables are straight through, so the >> >>> drive itself govens whether it's master or slave. When I only >> >>> have one drive, I use the middle connector, and hide the other >> >>> one out of the way, to give me better casing air flow. >> >> Tim: >> >> That is just so much misleading, not to mention outright wrong, >> >> information. Kindly stop leading people down the garden path. >> >> Wolfgang Gill: >> > Misleading?? That wasn't misleading at all!! And I'M NOT leading >> > people up the garden path. >> >> It's completely wrong to say that all IDE 40 or 80 wire cables are >> wired straight through. THEY ARE NOT! Repeat after me, they are >> NOT *all* wired straight through. And if anything, the *majority* >> are not. >> >> On any (40 or 80) that're cable-select, one wire is disconnected >> from one plug, and the same pin is grounded on another. That's not >> "straight through" wiring. >> >> On any that're 80-wire, only 40 of the wires can be "straight >> through", 40 don't connect to anything other than one plug, and >> there's two that might be connected as above (most 80-wire cables >> are cable-select, I won't go as far as to say that all of them are. > >I never said no such thing that ALL 40/80 pin IDE cables are straight >through. You can´t get them off the shelf unless you specifically ask >for them. Since they are the cheapest to manufacture, they will be the >most likely that people will come across. > >> So, now, tell me how that equates to being wired "straight through"? >> >> Hint: Don't argue with an electronics engineer about basic wiring. Why not if he's possibly miss-informed? >More like an Electronics Engineer arguing with another Electronics > engineer. (25 years in electronics/computers) Now you are asking for it, I can more than double that to 55. But since I have also learned that I don't know everything, I'm more than willing to take 'corrections'. To quote an ex motherinlaw who despite her lack of formal education, occasionally had a way with words, and one of her favorites was that so and so could paint a sign and then stand there and argue with it. You've done rather precisely that in this thread. >> > I've build literally 10,000 of machines (Probably more, lost count >> > after the first 1000 or so). And only 1% have failed due to >> > hardware faults, and cabling wasn't one of them. It's NO use to >> > explain things into GREAT detail to people that have little >> > understanding of the concepts as it is, and confuse them even >> > more. >> >> It's a very bad, VERY BAD, idea to outright lie to people. Do not >> tell false people information as if it were fact. Over-simplifying >> things to the point that they are wrong is misleading. The people >> who take you at face value later have to unlearn all the bad >> information that they found out, which is a difficult thing to do. >> >> >> If one is hiding parts of cables out of the way, one should be >> >> careful how it's done. Kinking or mangling cables can produce >> >> problems. If you're *never* going to use the extra length, I'd >> >> suggest just cutting it off. >> > >> > Now that's the part that's misleading.. "Cut it off if you don't >> > need it", that's a REALLY, SMART thing to say to people that >> > barely understand this concept at all. (**Shakes Head**) >> >> If you know how transmission lines work, and bear in mind the >> frequencies involved, taking excess cable and rolling it up, folding >> it up, bundling it under drives, etc., can lead to all sorts of >> problems. >> >> I repeat, if you're NEVER going to use the excess, it's fine to cut >> it off. Doing so will do NO harm to the signalling, and can remove >> a plethora of weird problems that people may encounter due to >> stuffing cables into any spare space. >> >> I take comments that "I've built thousands with no problems" with a >> grain of salt. How many PCs get problems that the builder will >> never hear about? Lots. How many problems go undiagnosed? Lots. >> How many people magically fix their systems by fiddling with the >> cables? Lots. >> >> >> Usually (Depending on brand of drive), the master drive is >> >> jumpered, and the slave drive isn't. >> >> >> >> I wouldn't agree with that at all, I see no consistency. >> > >> > You obviously haven't dealt with different number of different >> > brands of drives in the same system. IF you did, you'd know all >> > about it.. >> >> I have. You've obviously dealt with too few. >> >> I've seen drives which need no jumper for master, one jumper for it, >> two jumpers for it (depending on whether it was single or with a >> slave). I've seen slaves with one jumper, no jumper, and so on. I >> couldn't go around giving some assertion that it's more common for >> masters to be jumpered and slaves to be not, because I don't see >> that sort of consistency anywhere, and it's a useless thing to rely >> on. It's just encouraging people to make ill-considered assumptions >> about drives by quickly glancing at the back instead of checking out >> the jumpering that's actually needed by the drive. > >I never said anything along those lines either. And you don´t have to >explain it to me, I´ve been there done that. And it seems that we both >overlooked the fact that the original poster, was using a cable select >cable. As drives jumpered as master/slave don´t function when two > drives are connected to the cable. > >¨;doesn't seem to care which data cable connector is attached to it, > but when I put in the second drive, jumpered as "slave" the computer > won't boot.¨ > >Enough said from me, I hate this damned arguing crap.. Thats why I apologized, and until now exited this thread. -- Cheers, Gene People having trouble with vz bouncing email to me should add the word 'online' between the 'verizon', and the dot which bypasses vz's stupid bounce rules. I do use spamassassin too. :-) Yahoo.com and AOL/TW attorneys please note, additions to the above message by Gene Heskett are: Copyright 2006 by Maurice Eugene Heskett, all rights reserved.
