On Thu, 2006-02-23 at 18:06 +1030, Tim wrote: > Wolfgang Gill wrote: > >>> Nope it doesn't matter. Drive selects are done with jumpers on the > >>> drive. All IDE 40/80 pin cables are straight through, so the drive > >>> itself govens whether it's master or slave. When I only have one > >>> drive, I use the middle connector, and hide the other one out of the > >>> way, to give me better casing air flow. > > Tim: > >> That is just so much misleading, not to mention outright wrong, > >> information. Kindly stop leading people down the garden path. > > > Wolfgang Gill: > > Misleading?? That wasn't misleading at all!! And I'M NOT leading people up the > > garden path. > > It's completely wrong to say that all IDE 40 or 80 wire cables are wired > straight through. THEY ARE NOT! Repeat after me, they are NOT *all* > wired straight through. And if anything, the *majority* are not. > > On any (40 or 80) that're cable-select, one wire is disconnected from > one plug, and the same pin is grounded on another. That's not "straight > through" wiring. > > On any that're 80-wire, only 40 of the wires can be "straight through", > 40 don't connect to anything other than one plug, and there's two that > might be connected as above (most 80-wire cables are cable-select, I > won't go as far as to say that all of them are. > I never said no such thing that ALL 40/80 pin IDE cables are straight through. You can´t get them off the shelf unless you specifically ask for them. Since they are the cheapest to manufacture, they will be the most likely that people will come across. > So, now, tell me how that equates to being wired "straight through"? > > Hint: Don't argue with an electronics engineer about basic wiring. > More like an Electronics Engineer arguing with another Electronics engineer. (25 years in electronics/computers) > > I've build literally 10,000 of machines (Probably more, lost count > > after the first 1000 or so). And only 1% have failed due to hardware > > faults, and cabling wasn't one of them. It's NO use to explain things > > into GREAT detail to people that have little understanding of the > > concepts as it is, and confuse them even more. > > It's a very bad, VERY BAD, idea to outright lie to people. Do not tell > false people information as if it were fact. Over-simplifying things to > the point that they are wrong is misleading. The people who take you at > face value later have to unlearn all the bad information that they found > out, which is a difficult thing to do. > > > >> If one is hiding parts of cables out of the way, one should be > >> careful how it's done. Kinking or mangling cables can produce > >> problems. If you're *never* going to use the extra length, I'd > >> suggest just cutting it off. > > > Now that's the part that's misleading.. "Cut it off if you don't need it", > > that's a REALLY, SMART thing to say to people that barely understand this > > concept at all. (**Shakes Head**) > > If you know how transmission lines work, and bear in mind the > frequencies involved, taking excess cable and rolling it up, folding it > up, bundling it under drives, etc., can lead to all sorts of problems. > > I repeat, if you're NEVER going to use the excess, it's fine to cut it > off. Doing so will do NO harm to the signalling, and can remove a > plethora of weird problems that people may encounter due to stuffing > cables into any spare space. > > I take comments that "I've built thousands with no problems" with a > grain of salt. How many PCs get problems that the builder will never > hear about? Lots. How many problems go undiagnosed? Lots. How many > people magically fix their systems by fiddling with the cables? Lots. > > > >> Usually (Depending on brand of drive), the master drive is jumpered, > >> and the slave drive isn't. > > >> I wouldn't agree with that at all, I see no consistency. > > > You obviously haven't dealt with different number of different brands of drives > > in the same system. IF you did, you'd know all about it.. > > I have. You've obviously dealt with too few. > > I've seen drives which need no jumper for master, one jumper for it, two > jumpers for it (depending on whether it was single or with a slave). > I've seen slaves with one jumper, no jumper, and so on. I couldn't go > around giving some assertion that it's more common for masters to be > jumpered and slaves to be not, because I don't see that sort of > consistency anywhere, and it's a useless thing to rely on. It's just > encouraging people to make ill-considered assumptions about drives by > quickly glancing at the back instead of checking out the jumpering > that's actually needed by the drive. > I never said anything along those lines either. And you don´t have to explain it to me, I´ve been there done that. And it seems that we both overlooked the fact that the original poster, was using a cable select cable. As drives jumpered as master/slave don´t function when two drives are connected to the cable. ¨;doesn't seem to care which data cable connector is attached to it, but when I put in the second drive, jumpered as "slave" the computer won't boot.¨ Enough said from me, I hate this damned arguing crap..
