Ernest L. Williams Jr. <ernesto <at> ornl.gov> writes: > On Sat, 2005-06-25 at 12:55 -0400, Matthew Miller wrote: > > On Sat, Jun 25, 2005 at 12:50:48PM -0400, Ernest L. Williams Jr. wrote: > > > > Sun's Java isn't free - period. Then live with the Java FC4 ships with > > > > in Core. > > > What about the java distro from IBM? Is that one open-source? > > > > Nope. No open source JVM currently exists. > > The statement that "Sun's Java isnt even slightly open source" is > clearly an exaggeration. The definition of Open Source if pretty clear. http://www.opensource.org/docs/definition.php And so is the definition of Free Software. http://www.fsf.org/licensing/essays/free-sw.html The version of the java platform that sun distributes is clearly not-free and not-opensource. Fedora is about providing a free software platform based on the above definitions. > It relieves the developer of having to make platform specific > considerations and optimizations in their code and places this strictly > into the hands of the JVM where it belongs. Developers can focus on > building solutions and let the experts deal with platform specific > optimization and other issues. > 5) Sun has the ultimate say and reserves the right to control what code > gets accepted into the official Java distribution. And this is what makes it non-free, proprietary, closed-source software. As a user you are automatically defined as "not an expert". And you are not free to change the software to your own needs. No thanks. > 6) It isn't Java unless it meets the licensing requirements set forth by > Sun. This ensures platform independence and a consistent definition of > what defines Java. And that is why currently we don't call GCJ or GNU Classpath Java(TM). There are some people negotiating with Sun to get the (secret!) tests to proof that we are compatible. But Sun has not been very helpful. So we created our own testsuite (http://www.sourceware.org/mauve/) to show that we are aiming for proven compatability with our projects. > There is a huge number of 100% pure Java libraries that are > freely distributed and open source. Pure Java is a stable and supported > solution. What we see are people trying to take advantage of Java's > popularity and then splinter off their own variant (which is not legally > Java) to get what they want. We are not splintering at all. We are creating a complete free replacement for the java platform that integrates nicely with the traditional GNU platform (http://lwn.net/Articles/130796/). We are really trying to make this free platform as compatible and "pure" as possible. Sun (and the JCP companies) are not helping by not openly publishing the testing requirements. So currently we indeed cannot call what we produce Java (and I think Fedora should be more careful not present GCJ4 as java, it really isn't). All that said, please try out the free software jpackage solutions shipped with FC4 based on GCJ4. If it doesn't work as expected or you think it isn't compatible please report a bug, or better write a small test-case for Mauve, and I promise the community will fix it together with you! Because we DO think you are the expert. And that you should have the freedom to adapt and share software to your and your users needs. Cheers, Mark
