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Thomas Cameron wrote: | On Mon, 2004-12-06 at 10:42 -0500, Robert P. J. Day wrote: | |>On Mon, 6 Dec 2004, Shaffer Paul wrote: |> |> |>>Fedora's supporters (frequent repliers to these posts) rightfully |>>view the lesser mortals here with skepticism and disdain because |>>they are who they are and nobody is getting paid. Fair enough. |> |>no, not fair. and not accurate. if you go back and read some of |>those threads again, you'll find that newbies are not chastised simply |>for being newbies. they're chastised for bad behaviour. | | | No, they're publicly derided for being innocently ignorant of some | archaic set of "rules" which are not really rules - just suggested best | practice. And that's just plain wrong. That is *not* the open | community behavior I fell in love with when I first started using Linux. | | |>some examples are (god help me, i'm almost scared to type them in) |>posting in HTML, and top posting. | | | I am so freaking sick of this BULLSHIT about posting HTML and top | posting. It would amuse me if it didn't downright disgust me that the | ones who scream the loudest about this crap are the ones who in the next | message will bust on some poor newbie for not using the latest version | of package X. Guess what - if your MUA doesn't handle HTML, then SWITCH | FREAKING MUAs!!!! It is the 21st century, for Chrissakes! If you | *CHOOSE* to use an MUA that doesn't handle HTML, I don't wanna hear you | bitch about it! It's YOUR choice, freaking live with it. Pine works | great with HTML, as does Mutt with *minimal* fiddling. Oh, and so does | Evolution, and Thunderbird, and so on. I can't think of ANY modern mail | reader that doesn't handle HTML. If you *CHOOSE* to be some ascetic | Ubergeek monk and use a text only MUA that doesn't handle HTML, then you | are a dope. And if I hear another whine about "I pay for my bandwidth | and HTML uses more of it" I'm going to puke. If you can't deal with the | fact that new list members are GOING to make mistakes, then maybe this | isn't the right list for you. I mean, come ON!!! The WHOLE list for | the month of November was a whopping 14 megs. | | And since about, oh, my SECOND YEAR OF GRAMMAR SCHOOL I've been able to | read a letter out of order. GET OVER IT, people! Use your freaking | brain for once instead of going off on some poor newbie who doesn't know | any better. All you do when you flame some poor neophyte is alienate | him/her and make the REST OF US look bad. Let me repeat that - when you | flame someone, they think of "those jerks on the Fedora list," not "that | jerk Joe Blow on the Fedora list." Like it or not, you represent the | Fedora community, and I do not appreciate you representing my community | like an asshole. | | |>when newbies do either of these (as |>they are wont to do, not surprisingly), they are typically (and |>politely) asked not to do it again. and that's it. they apologize |>sometimes, they fix their mailers, they change their behaviour, and |>everyone gets back to work. end of problem. | | | So what is your excuse then for being such a jerk? There was not only | nothing polite in your posting, but you were an out and out ass. Twice. | The saddest thing about your behavior is that you seem proud of it! I | can't imagine that you would speak to someone like that face-to-face. | If you would treat a stranger like that face-to-face, I feel really | sorry for you. | | |>sadly, there is the occasional (i can't think of any other way to |>describe them) self-absorbed, arrogant bozo who takes umbrage with |>these rules of etiquette and initiates his own personal crusade to |>defend either of the above. | | | Sadly, there is the occasional self-absorbed, arrogant bozo who elects | himself "list police" who attempts to make himself look somehow better | by publicly chewing out newbies, making the whole Fedora community look | bad. | | |>with disastrous results, of course, |>leading to the periodic flame war only because *one* *person* thinks |>he knows better than everyone who's been a regular for years. go back |>and check in the archives -- tell me i'm wrong. | | | You're wrong. I've been in the IT industry for a decade. While I know | there are many on this list who look at me as still wet behind the ears, | I've been around for long enough to have seen all this crap over and | over and over and over and over and over (have I mentioned over and | over?) on list after list and newsgroup after newsgroup. | | When I was younger and less sure of myself, I admit that I tried to play | the cool "old-timer" and did the list police thing myself. Now that I | have (I hope) a modicum of maturity and experience, I realize that there | are so many more important things that top/bottom/HTML posts that I just | roll on by that crap. | | |>posters here don't get flamed for being newbies or "lesser mortals". |>they get flamed because they have no sense of courtesy, etiquette or |>history. | | | Bullshit. Posters get flamed here by people who are trying to make | themselves look like something more than they are. Posters here get | flamed for innocent ignorance. | | If you don't like something that some newbie does, educate him instead | of publicly humiliating him. If top/HTML posting bugs you that much, | then hey, the delete key works really well (and you should probably | switch to decaf). Just don't use it as an excuse to try to puff | yourself up as some sort of wizened old-timer who speaks The Truth. | | It's not that hard, people - use the same courtesy here that you would | in a business meeting. Grow up, be civil. There are enough people out | there being nasty to each other - we don't need it in here. | | If you can't say something nice, don't say anything at all. | | Thomas |
Thomas,
I couldn't have stated how I feel about this topic any better myself.
Thanks! :^)
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