On Mon, 2004-12-06 at 10:42 -0500, Robert P. J. Day wrote: > On Mon, 6 Dec 2004, Shaffer Paul wrote: > > > Fedora's supporters (frequent repliers to these posts) rightfully > > view the lesser mortals here with skepticism and disdain because > > they are who they are and nobody is getting paid. Fair enough. > > no, not fair. and not accurate. if you go back and read some of > those threads again, you'll find that newbies are not chastised simply > for being newbies. they're chastised for bad behaviour. No, they're publicly derided for being innocently ignorant of some archaic set of "rules" which are not really rules - just suggested best practice. And that's just plain wrong. That is *not* the open community behavior I fell in love with when I first started using Linux. > some examples are (god help me, i'm almost scared to type them in) > posting in HTML, and top posting. I am so freaking sick of this BULLSHIT about posting HTML and top posting. It would amuse me if it didn't downright disgust me that the ones who scream the loudest about this crap are the ones who in the next message will bust on some poor newbie for not using the latest version of package X. Guess what - if your MUA doesn't handle HTML, then SWITCH FREAKING MUAs!!!! It is the 21st century, for Chrissakes! If you *CHOOSE* to use an MUA that doesn't handle HTML, I don't wanna hear you bitch about it! It's YOUR choice, freaking live with it. Pine works great with HTML, as does Mutt with *minimal* fiddling. Oh, and so does Evolution, and Thunderbird, and so on. I can't think of ANY modern mail reader that doesn't handle HTML. If you *CHOOSE* to be some ascetic Ubergeek monk and use a text only MUA that doesn't handle HTML, then you are a dope. And if I hear another whine about "I pay for my bandwidth and HTML uses more of it" I'm going to puke. If you can't deal with the fact that new list members are GOING to make mistakes, then maybe this isn't the right list for you. I mean, come ON!!! The WHOLE list for the month of November was a whopping 14 megs. And since about, oh, my SECOND YEAR OF GRAMMAR SCHOOL I've been able to read a letter out of order. GET OVER IT, people! Use your freaking brain for once instead of going off on some poor newbie who doesn't know any better. All you do when you flame some poor neophyte is alienate him/her and make the REST OF US look bad. Let me repeat that - when you flame someone, they think of "those jerks on the Fedora list," not "that jerk Joe Blow on the Fedora list." Like it or not, you represent the Fedora community, and I do not appreciate you representing my community like an asshole. > when newbies do either of these (as > they are wont to do, not surprisingly), they are typically (and > politely) asked not to do it again. and that's it. they apologize > sometimes, they fix their mailers, they change their behaviour, and > everyone gets back to work. end of problem. So what is your excuse then for being such a jerk? There was not only nothing polite in your posting, but you were an out and out ass. Twice. The saddest thing about your behavior is that you seem proud of it! I can't imagine that you would speak to someone like that face-to-face. If you would treat a stranger like that face-to-face, I feel really sorry for you. > sadly, there is the occasional (i can't think of any other way to > describe them) self-absorbed, arrogant bozo who takes umbrage with > these rules of etiquette and initiates his own personal crusade to > defend either of the above. Sadly, there is the occasional self-absorbed, arrogant bozo who elects himself "list police" who attempts to make himself look somehow better by publicly chewing out newbies, making the whole Fedora community look bad. > with disastrous results, of course, > leading to the periodic flame war only because *one* *person* thinks > he knows better than everyone who's been a regular for years. go back > and check in the archives -- tell me i'm wrong. You're wrong. I've been in the IT industry for a decade. While I know there are many on this list who look at me as still wet behind the ears, I've been around for long enough to have seen all this crap over and over and over and over and over and over (have I mentioned over and over?) on list after list and newsgroup after newsgroup. When I was younger and less sure of myself, I admit that I tried to play the cool "old-timer" and did the list police thing myself. Now that I have (I hope) a modicum of maturity and experience, I realize that there are so many more important things that top/bottom/HTML posts that I just roll on by that crap. > posters here don't get flamed for being newbies or "lesser mortals". > they get flamed because they have no sense of courtesy, etiquette or > history. Bullshit. Posters get flamed here by people who are trying to make themselves look like something more than they are. Posters here get flamed for innocent ignorance. If you don't like something that some newbie does, educate him instead of publicly humiliating him. If top/HTML posting bugs you that much, then hey, the delete key works really well (and you should probably switch to decaf). Just don't use it as an excuse to try to puff yourself up as some sort of wizened old-timer who speaks The Truth. It's not that hard, people - use the same courtesy here that you would in a business meeting. Grow up, be civil. There are enough people out there being nasty to each other - we don't need it in here. If you can't say something nice, don't say anything at all. Thomas
