On Mon, 06 Dec 2004 21:37:08 -0600, Thomas Cameron wrote > On Mon, 2004-12-06 at 10:42 -0500, Robert P. J. Day wrote: > > On Mon, 6 Dec 2004, Shaffer Paul wrote: > > > > > Fedora's supporters (frequent repliers to these posts) rightfully > > > view the lesser mortals here with skepticism and disdain because > > > they are who they are and nobody is getting paid. Fair enough. > > > > no, not fair. and not accurate. if you go back and read some of > > those threads again, you'll find that newbies are not chastised simply > > for being newbies. they're chastised for bad behaviour. > > No, they're publicly derided for being innocently ignorant of some > archaic set of "rules" which are not really rules - just suggested best > practice. And that's just plain wrong. That is *not* the open > community behavior I fell in love with when I first started using Linux. > > > some examples are (god help me, i'm almost scared to type them in) > > posting in HTML, and top posting. > > I am so freaking sick of this BULLSHIT about posting HTML and top > posting. It would amuse me if it didn't downright disgust me that > the ones who scream the loudest about this crap are the ones who in > the next message will bust on some poor newbie for not using the > latest version of package X. Guess what - if your MUA doesn't > handle HTML, then SWITCH FREAKING MUAs!!!! It is the 21st century, > for Chrissakes! If you *CHOOSE* to use an MUA that doesn't handle > HTML, I don't wanna hear you bitch about it! It's YOUR choice, > freaking live with it. Pine works great with HTML, as does Mutt > with *minimal* fiddling. Oh, and so does Evolution, and Thunderbird, > and so on. I can't think of ANY modern mail reader that doesn't > handle HTML. If you *CHOOSE* to be some ascetic Ubergeek monk and > use a text only MUA that doesn't handle HTML, then you are a dope. > And if I hear another whine about "I pay for my bandwidth and HTML > uses more of it" I'm going to puke. If you can't deal with the fact > that new list members are GOING to make mistakes, then maybe this > isn't the right list for you. I mean, come ON!!! The WHOLE list > for the month of November was a whopping 14 megs. > > And since about, oh, my SECOND YEAR OF GRAMMAR SCHOOL I've been able > to read a letter out of order. GET OVER IT, people! Use your freaking > brain for once instead of going off on some poor newbie who doesn't know > any better. All you do when you flame some poor neophyte is alienate > him/her and make the REST OF US look bad. Let me repeat that - when > you flame someone, they think of "those jerks on the Fedora list," > not "that jerk Joe Blow on the Fedora list." Like it or not, you > represent the Fedora community, and I do not appreciate you > representing my community like an asshole. > > > when newbies do either of these (as > > they are wont to do, not surprisingly), they are typically (and > > politely) asked not to do it again. and that's it. they apologize > > sometimes, they fix their mailers, they change their behaviour, and > > everyone gets back to work. end of problem. > > So what is your excuse then for being such a jerk? There was not > only nothing polite in your posting, but you were an out and out > ass. Twice. The saddest thing about your behavior is that you seem > proud of it! I can't imagine that you would speak to someone like > that face-to-face. If you would treat a stranger like that face-to- > face, I feel really sorry for you. > > > sadly, there is the occasional (i can't think of any other way to > > describe them) self-absorbed, arrogant bozo who takes umbrage with > > these rules of etiquette and initiates his own personal crusade to > > defend either of the above. > > Sadly, there is the occasional self-absorbed, arrogant bozo who > elects himself "list police" who attempts to make himself look > somehow better by publicly chewing out newbies, making the whole > Fedora community look bad. > > > with disastrous results, of course, > > leading to the periodic flame war only because *one* *person* thinks > > he knows better than everyone who's been a regular for years. go back > > and check in the archives -- tell me i'm wrong. > > You're wrong. I've been in the IT industry for a decade. While I know > there are many on this list who look at me as still wet behind the > ears, I've been around for long enough to have seen all this crap > over and over and over and over and over and over (have I mentioned > over and over?) on list after list and newsgroup after newsgroup. > > When I was younger and less sure of myself, I admit that I tried to play > the cool "old-timer" and did the list police thing myself. Now that > I have (I hope) a modicum of maturity and experience, I realize that > there are so many more important things that top/bottom/HTML posts > that I just roll on by that crap. > > > posters here don't get flamed for being newbies or "lesser mortals". > > they get flamed because they have no sense of courtesy, etiquette or > > history. > > Bullshit. Posters get flamed here by people who are trying to make > themselves look like something more than they are. Posters here get > flamed for innocent ignorance. > > If you don't like something that some newbie does, educate him > instead of publicly humiliating him. If top/HTML posting bugs you > that much, then hey, the delete key works really well (and you > should probably switch to decaf). Just don't use it as an excuse to > try to puff yourself up as some sort of wizened old-timer who speaks > The Truth. > > It's not that hard, people - use the same courtesy here that you > would in a business meeting. Grow up, be civil. There are enough > people out there being nasty to each other - we don't need it in here. > > If you can't say something nice, don't say anything at all. > > Thomas Amen to that - I couldn't of said it better myslf. Now let's get back to Linux shall we. Wolf -- Open WebMail Project (http://openwebmail.org)
