Re: ATTN SELF-STYLED LIST POLICE (was RE: Mr. Day)

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On Mon, 06 Dec 2004 21:37:08 -0600, Thomas Cameron wrote
> On Mon, 2004-12-06 at 10:42 -0500, Robert P. J. Day wrote:
> > On Mon, 6 Dec 2004, Shaffer Paul wrote:
> > 
> > > Fedora's supporters (frequent repliers to these posts) rightfully
> > > view the lesser mortals here with skepticism and disdain because
> > > they are who they are and nobody is getting paid.  Fair enough.
> > 
> > no, not fair.  and not accurate.  if you go back and read some of
> > those threads again, you'll find that newbies are not chastised simply
> > for being newbies.  they're chastised for bad behaviour.
> 
> No, they're publicly derided for being innocently ignorant of some
> archaic set of "rules" which are not really rules - just suggested best
> practice.  And that's just plain wrong.  That is *not* the open
> community behavior I fell in love with when I first started using Linux.
> 
> > some examples are (god help me, i'm almost scared to type them in)
> > posting in HTML, and top posting.
> 
> I am so freaking sick of this BULLSHIT about posting HTML and top
> posting.  It would amuse me if it didn't downright disgust me that 
> the ones who scream the loudest about this crap are the ones who in 
> the next message will bust on some poor newbie for not using the 
> latest version of package X.  Guess what - if your MUA doesn't 
> handle HTML, then SWITCH FREAKING MUAs!!!!  It is the 21st century,
>  for Chrissakes!  If you *CHOOSE* to use an MUA that doesn't handle 
> HTML, I don't wanna hear you bitch about it!  It's YOUR choice,
>  freaking live with it.  Pine works great with HTML, as does Mutt 
> with *minimal* fiddling.  Oh, and so does Evolution, and Thunderbird,
>  and so on.  I can't think of ANY modern mail reader that doesn't 
> handle HTML.  If you *CHOOSE* to be some ascetic Ubergeek monk and 
> use a text only MUA that doesn't handle HTML, then you are a dope. 
>  And if I hear another whine about "I pay for my bandwidth and HTML 
> uses more of it" I'm going to puke.  If you can't deal with the fact 
> that new list members are GOING to make mistakes, then maybe this 
> isn't the right list for you.  I mean, come ON!!!  The WHOLE list 
> for the month of November was a whopping 14 megs.
> 
> And since about, oh, my SECOND YEAR OF GRAMMAR SCHOOL I've been able 
> to read a letter out of order.  GET OVER IT, people!  Use your freaking
> brain for once instead of going off on some poor newbie who doesn't know
> any better.  All you do when you flame some poor neophyte is alienate
> him/her and make the REST OF US look bad.  Let me repeat that - when 
> you flame someone, they think of "those jerks on the Fedora list," 
> not "that jerk Joe Blow on the Fedora list."  Like it or not, you 
> represent the Fedora community, and I do not appreciate you 
> representing my community like an asshole.
> 
> > when newbies do either of these (as
> > they are wont to do, not surprisingly), they are typically (and
> > politely) asked not to do it again.  and that's it.  they apologize
> > sometimes, they fix their mailers, they change their behaviour, and
> > everyone gets back to work.  end of problem.
> 
> So what is your excuse then for being such a jerk?  There was not 
> only nothing polite in your posting, but you were an out and out 
> ass.  Twice. The saddest thing about your behavior is that you seem 
> proud of it!  I can't imagine that you would speak to someone like 
> that face-to-face. If you would treat a stranger like that face-to-
> face, I feel really sorry for you.
> 
> > sadly, there is the occasional (i can't think of any other way to
> > describe them) self-absorbed, arrogant bozo who takes umbrage with
> > these rules of etiquette and initiates his own personal crusade to
> > defend either of the above.
> 
> Sadly, there is the occasional self-absorbed, arrogant bozo who 
> elects himself "list police" who attempts to make himself look 
> somehow better by publicly chewing out newbies, making the whole 
> Fedora community look bad.
> 
> > with disastrous results, of course,
> > leading to the periodic flame war only because *one* *person* thinks
> > he knows better than everyone who's been a regular for years.  go back
> > and check in the archives -- tell me i'm wrong.
> 
> You're wrong.  I've been in the IT industry for a decade.  While I know
> there are many on this list who look at me as still wet behind the 
> ears, I've been around for long enough to have seen all this crap 
> over and over and over and over and over and over (have I mentioned 
> over and over?) on list after list and newsgroup after newsgroup.
> 
> When I was younger and less sure of myself, I admit that I tried to play
> the cool "old-timer" and did the list police thing myself.  Now that 
> I have (I hope) a modicum of maturity and experience, I realize that 
> there are so many more important things that top/bottom/HTML posts 
> that I just roll on by that crap.
> 
> > posters here don't get flamed for being newbies or "lesser mortals".
> > they get flamed because they have no sense of courtesy, etiquette or
> > history.
> 
> Bullshit.  Posters get flamed here by people who are trying to make
> themselves look like something more than they are.  Posters here get
> flamed for innocent ignorance.
> 
> If you don't like something that some newbie does, educate him 
> instead of publicly humiliating him.  If top/HTML posting bugs you 
> that much, then hey, the delete key works really well (and you 
> should probably switch to decaf).  Just don't use it as an excuse to 
> try to puff yourself up as some sort of wizened old-timer who speaks 
> The Truth.
> 
> It's not that hard, people - use the same courtesy here that you 
> would in a business meeting.  Grow up, be civil.  There are enough 
> people out there being nasty to each other - we don't need it in here.
> 
> If you can't say something nice, don't say anything at all.
> 
> Thomas

Amen to that - I couldn't of said it better myslf. Now let's get back to Linux
shall we.

Wolf
--
Open WebMail Project (http://openwebmail.org)


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