I am an ex kde 3.5 user - I switched to gnome after the 4.0 mess ... With the impending advent of gnome-shell - I decided to take a look at kde4 again on f14 - after a brief revisit I found it to be a look-dont-touch GUI ... :-( In my opinion - it suffers the same basic flaws that made many of us leave in the first place unfortunately. Here's a couple things that perhaps are doable just not obvious. I started with a fresh kde login - I created a new panel on top in which to add the set of things I commonly use. (1) Adding an app to panel which isn't in kde menu not possible. (e.g. user apps - things i need for work, whatever) (2) Moving App icon in panel where you want it - not possible (a) not obvious - basic UI flaw - middle click etc dont work. (b) if you click "panel settings" and then you can move icon However the icon springs back to the side afterwards so you cannot place it where you want it as it doesn't stay where i put it. (3) virtual desktops widget - the grouping of things by name - terminal in my case - still doesn't work - this was reported way back in kde 4.0 - still doesn't work. Perhaps they can be done - but was not obvious - it didn't crash on me - just found the UI to be 2/10 (kde 3 was a 8/10). gnome is 6/10 and gnome shell i have not explored yet. I'm open still and perhaps I need to invest a lot more time, but for now I'm definitely back in gnome ... gene -- users mailing list users@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines