On Monday 03 April 2006 21:10, Craig White wrote: >On Mon, 2006-04-03 at 14:46 -0400, Gene Heskett wrote: >> >somebody else said---- >> >seems to me that since Red Hat and Fedora absolutely rely upon >> > bugzilla for bug reports and repairs, enhancement requests and all >> > other errata for their packaging and have done so for quite some >> > time. >> > >> >Recognize that if you don't provide feedback, your opinions >> > languish here and go nowhere and are not considered and not >> > relevant to the decision makers (i.e. the packagers, in this case >> > - >> > fedora-developers). It is your choice whether you interact with >> > bugzilla or not. >> > >> >When I want my opinions to actually count (be considered), I put >> > them in bugzilla attached to the appropriate package. When I want >> > to get on a soap box and shout into the abyss...this is a suitable >> > place. >> > >> >As to your insinuation of the 'dubious genealogy of bugzilla', it >> > has served the development system for RHL, RHEL and now Fedora for >> > a great many years and is integral to the development. While less >> > than perfect, it is a system that is used in a vast array of >> > software projects but you could actually put in a bugzilla entry >> > on bugzilla itself I would guess...that is if you identified >> > something that needed fixing. >> > >> >Craig >> >> A correction here, Craig. >> >> It has served to insulate the developers from the feedback >> obtainable by listening to the real world because they don't have >> the time to listen to all the senseless babble here. And I agree >> that much of it is exactly that. >> >> In that insulating effort it is absolutely unsurpassed in its >> effectiveness. Nothing else I've encounterd has succeeded in >> deflecting bug bitches from getting to the real people who might >> listen and act as well as bugzilla has over the years. Navigating >> that to actually file a report has been improved some over the >> years, but I dare say it still turns away 95% of the people who go >> there. 5 years ago I daresay the reject rate was 99.9%, so I'll >> admit there has been some improvements. OTOH if you make it too >> easy, then it turns into this list, and thats equally >> non-productive. > >---- >what do you cite as the source of these statistics? My own personal experience. If others have as much trouble as I have, then I think the stats are at least partially valid. >Does the above citation count entries that are marked 'notabug' as > part of the 95% turn away? I've had that happen too. >FWIW - I did a report within bugzilla and found no entries tied to >"gene.heskett" whatsoever - which I assume means that you have not >submitted nor cc'd yourself to a single report in the bugzilla > history. You might try gene_heskett, which should get at least 1 hit in past history. Something IIRC about a bad cups version in FC2 that caused kde to crash, and IIRC it was notabug because it was kde related. > >Are you relating first hand experiences here (because I don't see any >evidence of that) or are you referring to your general impression of >bugzilla? First hand. And of course I won't be in the records as having submitted a bug if, when I get tired of screwing around with an apparently endless loop of searching for old bug reports that fit my description without managing to find the button that gets me past that 'test' an to an actual enter a bug screen. I've given up on the process as using up way too much of my old and frayed fuse and just left after 20 minutes of trying to get around that roadblock, many times. One pass thru that loop, maybe 2 if I reword it a little, should be sufficient to enable the post a new bug screens. In fairness, but not with your (fedora's) copy because I swore off it 2 years ago and haven't been back, it has been improved to the point of actually being useable given sufficient patience on the part of the user trying to enter a bug. >Craig -- Cheers, Gene People having trouble with vz bouncing email to me should add the word 'online' between the 'verizon', and the dot which bypasses vz's stupid bounce rules. I do use spamassassin too. :-) Yahoo.com and AOL/TW attorneys please note, additions to the above message by Gene Heskett are: Copyright 2006 by Maurice Eugene Heskett, all rights reserved.