On Monday 03 April 2006 14:25, Craig White wrote: >On Mon, 2006-04-03 at 14:08 -0400, Gene Heskett wrote: >> On Monday 03 April 2006 13:43, Craig White wrote: >> >On Mon, 2006-04-03 at 13:27 -0400, Gene Heskett wrote: >> >> On Monday 03 April 2006 12:18, Sjoerd Mullender wrote: >> >> [...] >> >> >> >I maintain, it's all there. >> >> >> >> It may be on *that* screen, but thats not the screen one would >> >> intuitively use for that. Those options should be fully >> >> available at the top of the drive prep menu, and I don't have a >> >> quarter to call somebody who *thinks* they are simplifying it for >> >> Joe & Jane Sixpack and tell him/her thay they are an idiot for >> >> doing it preemptively, long before one is even thinking of how >> >> the target drive is to be prepared. Just like the organization >> >> line in my headers, absolutely none. >> > >> >---- >> >there is a mechanism for providing feedback...bugzilla. I've read >> > it here many times...it's not a bug if it's not in bugzilla. >> >> Yes, and the dubious geneology of bugzilla has been discussed here, >> at length, many times in several, often unprintable languages. It >> maybe is improving from my last meeting with it, but simple it >> isn't. Most (including me) would rather not have a brainless script >> second, third, or forth guessing what it is we're trying to say. > >---- >seems to me that since Red Hat and Fedora absolutely rely upon > bugzilla for bug reports and repairs, enhancement requests and all > other errata for their packaging and have done so for quite some > time. > >Recognize that if you don't provide feedback, your opinions languish >here and go nowhere and are not considered and not relevant to the >decision makers (i.e. the packagers, in this case - > fedora-developers). It is your choice whether you interact with > bugzilla or not. > >When I want my opinions to actually count (be considered), I put them > in bugzilla attached to the appropriate package. When I want to get > on a soap box and shout into the abyss...this is a suitable place. > >As to your insinuation of the 'dubious genealogy of bugzilla', it has >served the development system for RHL, RHEL and now Fedora for a great >many years and is integral to the development. While less than > perfect, it is a system that is used in a vast array of software > projects but you could actually put in a bugzilla entry on bugzilla > itself I would guess...that is if you identified something that > needed fixing. > >Craig A correction here, Craig. It has served to insulate the developers from the feedback obtainable by listening to the real world because they don't have the time to listen to all the senseless babble here. And I agree that much of it is exactly that. In that insulating effort it is absolutely unsurpassed in its effectiveness. Nothing else I've encounterd has succeeded in deflecting bug bitches from getting to the real people who might listen and act as well as bugzilla has over the years. Navigating that to actually file a report has been improved some over the years, but I dare say it still turns away 95% of the people who go there. 5 years ago I daresay the reject rate was 99.9%, so I'll admit there has been some improvements. OTOH if you make it too easy, then it turns into this list, and thats equally non-productive. Damned if you do, and damned if you don't, no middle ground. -- Cheers, Gene People having trouble with vz bouncing email to me should add the word 'online' between the 'verizon', and the dot which bypasses vz's stupid bounce rules. I do use spamassassin too. :-) Yahoo.com and AOL/TW attorneys please note, additions to the above message by Gene Heskett are: Copyright 2006 by Maurice Eugene Heskett, all rights reserved.
