Fedora Core 4 On mini mac

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(sorry if this is the wrong place to post this)

For days I have been trying to install Fedora core 4 (ppc) on my Mini Mac I have repartitioned destroyed partitions etc and every time it errors with ignore or cancel messages about partition blocks I can press ignore and go on but it generally bombs out when it comes to the actual formatting of the new partitions I've defined and the copy of files part , on one occasion it seemed to actually install but on reboot it failed to load kernel image
There is nothing wrong with the hdd I have no issues at all installing tiger back on the Mini Mac , but do what I will it actively refuses to have anything to do with Fedora.
Has anyone else experienced this problem ?

Richard

-----Original Message-----
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Sent: 12 August 2005 15:24
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Today's Topics:

   1. Re: Nautilus missing sidebar, address bar [solved] (Steven Stern)
   2. Re: Logins (Paul Howarth)
   3. Re: Newbie. Java Path in Fedora not found (Tatxe)
   4. Re: Newbie. Java Path in Fedora not found (Craig Thomas)
   5. Re: smb mounts (Tim)
   6. Re: transfer master Windows DNS to slave BIND DNS (Les Mikesell)
   7. how to instal RHFC to run on i386 (Gavin Li)
   8. RE: Spam assassin Gui required (Brian Gaynor)
   9. Re: Spam assassin Gui required (Les Mikesell)
  10. Re: how to instal RHFC to run on i386 (Jakub Jelinek)
  11. Re: Updated FC3 KDM issues? (Rex Dieter)
  12. Re: smb mounts (Neal Becker)
  13. Re: disable shutdown/reboot in GNOME logout menu (Bryn Reeves)
  14. VCD help (arnuld fraser)
  15. Re: Logins (Dave Mitchell)
  16. Re: mplayer as dependency error (Robin Laing)
  17. Burnt ISO using k3b (Linux Newbee)
  18. Re: Newbie. Java Path in Fedora not found (akonstam@xxxxxxxxxxx)
  19. Re: Lexmark printer drivers (Robin Laing)


----------------------------------------------------------------------

Message: 1
Date: Fri, 12 Aug 2005 07:14:19 -0500
From: Steven Stern <subscribed-lists@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: Re: Nautilus missing sidebar, address bar [solved]
To: For users of Fedora Core releases <fedora-list@xxxxxxxxxx>
Message-ID: <42FC929B.8060103@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed

Steven Stern wrote:
> My Nautilus windows are missing the sidebar and address bar as well as 
> the options to turn them on/off from the VIEW menu.  The help system says:
> 
> You can show and hide file browser window components as follows:
> 
> To hide the side pane, choose View-> Side Pane. To display the side pane 
> again, choose View -> Side Pane again.
> To hide the toolbar, choose View -> Toolbar. To display the toolbar 
> again, choose View -> Toolbar again.
> To hide the location bar, choose View -> Location Bar. To display the 
> location bar again, choose View -> Location Bar again.
> To hide the statusbar, choose View -> Statusbar. To display the 
> statusbar again, choose View -> Statusbar again
> 
> but there are no such items on the View menu.
> 
> I don't know how they got removed. How do I get them back?

Never mind....

EDIT -> PREFERENCES -> BEHAVIOR -> Always open in browser window was 
unchecked.  I checked it and the sidebar is back.

-- 

   Steve



------------------------------

Message: 2
Date: Fri, 12 Aug 2005 13:28:32 +0100
From: Paul Howarth <paul@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: Re: Logins
To: For users of Fedora Core releases <fedora-list@xxxxxxxxxx>
Message-ID: <42FC95F0.8070603@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed

Ted Gervais wrote:
> Before upgrading to FC4 I used to be able to turn on my computer and up would 
> come FC3 with any need to login.  It would sit there at the 'desktop' waiting 
> for me to do something.  But I never had to enter a username and password.
> 
> However, I DO have to do that now with FC4?  Obviously there is a setting 
> somewhere that can fix that but where is it?   

Having to log in is the default; before upgrading you must have 
configured autologin yourself.

See the AutomaticLoginEnable and AutomaticLogin keywords (documented at 
http://yippi.hypermall.com/gdm/gdm-documentation/x241.html) in 
/etc/X11/gdm/gdm.conf to set it up again.

Paul.



------------------------------

Message: 3
Date: Fri, 12 Aug 2005 13:42:12 +0200
From: Tatxe <tatxe@xxxxxxxxx>
Subject: Re: Newbie. Java Path in Fedora not found
To: For users of Fedora Core releases <fedora-list@xxxxxxxxxx>
Message-ID: <1123846932.8237.21.camel@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"

El vie, 12-08-2005 a las 11:42 +0100, Clive at Rational escribió:


Try this:

instead of
/etc/profile.d/java.sh
export PATH=$PATH:/usr/java/j2re1.4.2_08/bin

use this:
export PATH=/usr/java/j2re1.4.2_08/bin:$PATH

And the system look first in the SUN java before than de gnu java :)

> Hi,
> 
>    I am running Oxygen XML successfully under Fedora 4
> kernel 2.6.12
> 
>   However, before I run the program I have to issue
> the following command
> 
> export PATH=/usr/java/j2re1.4.2_08/bin:$PATH
> 
>   otherwise I get lots of error messages and OXygen
> does not run.
> 
>    Now I have searched around and found the following
> file and entry
> 
> /etc/profile.d/java.sh
> export PATH=$PATH:/usr/java/j2re1.4.2_08/bin
> 
>   However, this entry does not seem "sufficient" to
> define a path to Java. What do I need to do to the
> java.sh entry so I do not need to run the export
> command every time I want to run Oxygen?
> 
> Thanks 
> 
> Clive
> 
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Message: 4
Date: Fri, 12 Aug 2005 08:39:24 -0400
From: Craig Thomas <cjtinhp@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: Re: Newbie. Java Path in Fedora not found
To: clive@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx,	For users of Fedora Core
	releases <fedora-list@xxxxxxxxxx>
Message-ID: <1123850364.7047.1.camel@ivan>
Content-Type: text/plain

On Fri, 2005-08-12 at 11:42 +0100, Clive at Rational wrote:
> /etc/profile.d/java.sh
> export PATH=$PATH:/usr/java/j2re1.4.2_08/bin
> 
>   However, this entry does not seem "sufficient" to
> define a path to Java. What do I need to do to the
> java.sh entry so I do not need to run the export
> command every time I want to run Oxygen?

That should do it [does here]...have you logged out and back in to get a
new set of environment variables?

> Clive

--
Craig



------------------------------

Message: 5
Date: Fri, 12 Aug 2005 22:09:44 +0930
From: Tim <ignored_mailbox@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: Re: smb mounts
To: For users of Fedora Core releases <fedora-list@xxxxxxxxxx>
Message-ID: <1123850384.6504.11.camel@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Content-Type: text/plain

On Fri, 2005-08-12 at 07:46 -0400, Neal Becker wrote:

> Build/install smb4k and use kde.  You'll love it.

I just removed KDE, so I can't try it, but looking at a website about
it, that just looks like network browsing.  Does it extend the feature
to other applications though?  (i.e. Beyond Konqueror.)

So, for example, if you were using your word processor and wanted to
open or save a file over the network, you could use a remote path that
wasn't mounted somewhere onto the directory tree?

It sounded like the original poster wanted to do something like that,
and I know I have from time to time.  On Windows I never bothered with
mounting SMB shares to a drive letter, but on Linux I've had to do
something like that for remote resources.

-- 
Don't send private replies to my address, the mailbox is ignored.
I read messages from the public lists.



------------------------------

Message: 6
Date: Fri, 12 Aug 2005 07:40:02 -0500
From: Les Mikesell <lesmikesell@xxxxxxxxx>
Subject: Re: transfer master Windows DNS to slave BIND DNS
To: For users of Fedora Core releases <fedora-list@xxxxxxxxxx>
Message-ID: <1123850401.4486.5.camel@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Content-Type: text/plain

On Fri, 2005-08-12 at 03:12, M E Fieu wrote:
> > Everything looks right on the Linux side.  You might find a reason in
> > the Windows event logs.  There are some security options you may have to
> > disable or configure to match at both ends.
> > 
> 
> I create another DNS zone in my windows DNS server and it is successfully got transfer to BIND
> DNS.  I took a second look on the difference between the original zone and second zone.  I just
> realise that the original zone abc.com is AD intergated and second zone is standard primary zone. 
> I think AD intergated has problem to be zone transfer to Linux BIND right ?

I have it working, but the AD is at another location and
controlled by someone else so I don't know what options had
to be set.  I'd guess you either have to install matching
keys or turn off the secure option.  Another option is to have
the AD replicate the zone to the windows DNS server that
works it you are going to keep that one around, then have
linux do the zone transfer from there.  We just made that
change as the AD went into production using a new domain
name so everything else could keep using the old DNS server
addresses.

-- 
  Les Mikesell
    lesmikesell@xxxxxxxxx





------------------------------

Message: 7
Date: Fri, 12 Aug 2005 08:44:22 -0400
From: Gavin Li <gavinl@xxxxxxxxx>
Subject: how to instal RHFC to run on i386
To: fedora-list@xxxxxxxxxx
Message-ID: <11E3973D1E78D311A5B400508B4A70CE029C2E46@COMSRVR>
Content-Type: text/plain;	charset=ISO-8859-1


I want to install RHFC to let it run on a i386, (actually it is i586), but I
don't want to run installation on a Pentium PC, because it is too slow. I
want to run the P4 machine, and then take the harddrive and plug in my
Pentium PC. The problem is if I run the installlaion in P4, it installs i686
code, (and the glibc, which compiled for i686).

I go through all the details in the install program, but I couldn't find a
way to let it install i586 code in a P4 machine. Does anyone know how to do
it?

Regards,



------------------------------

Message: 8
Date: Fri, 12 Aug 2005 05:43:45 -0700
From: "Brian Gaynor" <briang@xxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: RE: Spam assassin Gui required
To: "'For users of Fedora Core releases'" <fedora-list@xxxxxxxxxx>
Message-ID: <20050812124345.ED1762994EA@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Content-Type: text/plain;	charset="US-ASCII"

> -----Original Message-----
> Hi All.
> 
>               I have configured Sendmail Gateway Server with
> Spamassassin and mimedefang 2.52. But all the controls are in console
> mode or in other words. But my boss wants that there should be some
> Gui interface from where we can manage spammassassin or mimedefang
> contriols. If anybody knows it then plz help.

There are plugins available for Squirrelmail webmail package that allow
users to do basic control of their Spamassassin settings. Squirrelmail ships
with Fedora and the plugins are available from:

	http://squirrelmail.org

Squirrelmail is written in php, making it rather easy to modify the plugins
to add features and tweak for your configuration. 

Brian



------------------------------

Message: 9
Date: Fri, 12 Aug 2005 07:47:54 -0500
From: Les Mikesell <lesmikesell@xxxxxxxxx>
Subject: Re: Spam assassin Gui required
To: For users of Fedora Core releases <fedora-list@xxxxxxxxxx>
Message-ID: <1123850873.4486.12.camel@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Content-Type: text/plain

On Fri, 2005-08-12 at 01:17, jdow wrote:
> From: "Ashish" <maillistsmix@xxxxxxxxx>
> 
> > Hi All.
> > 
> >              I have configured Sendmail Gateway Server with
> > Spamassassin and mimedefang 2.52. But all the controls are in console
> > mode or in other words. But my boss wants that there should be some
> > Gui interface from where we can manage spammassassin or mimedefang
> > contriols. If anybody knows it then plz help.
> 
> Make one. There is none available except as part of commercial products.

Or, go for the commercial product: the excellent free MimeDefang is
really an offshoot of the can-it product:
http://www.roaringpenguin.com/anti_spam/index.php
There is a free version for less than 50 users.

-- 
  Les Mikesell
   lesmikesell@xxxxxxxxx





------------------------------

Message: 10
Date: Fri, 12 Aug 2005 08:56:40 -0400
From: Jakub Jelinek <jakub@xxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: Re: how to instal RHFC to run on i386
To: For users of Fedora Core releases <fedora-list@xxxxxxxxxx>
Message-ID: <20050812125640.GY30077@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

On Fri, Aug 12, 2005 at 08:44:22AM -0400, Gavin Li wrote:
> 
> I want to install RHFC to let it run on a i386, (actually it is i586), but I
> don't want to run installation on a Pentium PC, because it is too slow. I
> want to run the P4 machine, and then take the harddrive and plug in my
> Pentium PC. The problem is if I run the installlaion in P4, it installs i686
> code, (and the glibc, which compiled for i686).
> 
> I go through all the details in the install program, but I couldn't find a
> way to let it install i586 code in a P4 machine. Does anyone know how to do
> it?

That's not something that can be done during the install, but you can easily
change that after install is complete.
For glibc, rpm -Uvh --oldpackage glibc-2.3*.i386.rpm should do the job,
similarly you'll need to handle other *.i686.rpm's (at least openssl)
and then install the i586 kernel.

	Jakub



------------------------------

Message: 11
Date: Fri, 12 Aug 2005 07:58:07 -0500
From: Rex Dieter <rdieter@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: Re: Updated FC3 KDM issues?
To: For users of Fedora Core releases <fedora-list@xxxxxxxxxx>
Message-ID: <42FC9CDF.7000100@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed

Jason L Tibbitts III wrote:
> I didn't see an announcement about the updates, but my FC3 machines
> pulled down updates to KDE 3.4.2 last night and I'm seeing some
> oddness.
> 
> KDM is complaining about not being able to find 
> /usr/share/apps/kdm/themes/Bluecurve

Should be provided by redhat-artwork (though perhaps an updated 
redhat-artwork is required).

-- Rex



------------------------------

Message: 12
Date: Fri, 12 Aug 2005 09:10:14 -0400
From: Neal Becker <ndbecker2@xxxxxxxxx>
Subject: Re: smb mounts
To: fedora-list@xxxxxxxxxx
Message-ID: <ddi722$al9$1@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

Tim wrote:

> On Fri, 2005-08-12 at 07:46 -0400, Neal Becker wrote:
> 
>> Build/install smb4k and use kde.  You'll love it.
> 
> I just removed KDE, so I can't try it, but looking at a website about
> it, that just looks like network browsing.  Does it extend the feature
> to other applications though?  (i.e. Beyond Konqueror.)
> 
> So, for example, if you were using your word processor and wanted to
> open or save a file over the network, you could use a remote path that
> wasn't mounted somewhere onto the directory tree?
> 
> It sounded like the original poster wanted to do something like that,
> and I know I have from time to time.  On Windows I never bothered with
> mounting SMB shares to a drive letter, but on Linux I've had to do
> something like that for remote resources.
> 

Yes.  It will provide a gui through which you can _easily_ mount any shares,
just by clicking.  Then any app can access them.



------------------------------

Message: 13
Date: Fri, 12 Aug 2005 14:13:35 +0100
From: Bryn Reeves <breeves@xxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: Re: disable shutdown/reboot in GNOME logout menu
To: For users of Fedora Core releases <fedora-list@xxxxxxxxxx>
Message-ID: <1123852415.3160.10.camel@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Content-Type: text/plain

On Thu, 2005-08-11 at 11:21 -0300, Ben Steeves wrote: 
> Any suggestions?

Hi Ben,
To be completely safe, there are a couple of things to do here. 

You need to change gdm's config to remove the menu options.
Open /etc/X11/gdm/gdm.conf in a text editor and find the [greeter]
section. Make sure there is a line like this:

[greeter]
...
SystemMenu=false

This removes the shutdown/reboot options from the log-in screen and the
log-out dialog. Alternatively run gdmconfig and provide the root
password, then uncheck the 'Show action menu' option on the security
tab. 

To prevent users opening a terminal and running poweroff or reboot,
delete or move these files:

/etc/security/console.apps/poweroff
/etc/security/console.apps/reboot

If your machines use ACPI, you will also need to disable ACPI-driven
shutdowns from the power button. 

On more to go now, to prevent someone switching to a virtual console and
hitting ctrl-alt-del, we need to edit inittab. Find the line that looks
like this:

# Trap CTRL-ALT-DELETE
ca::ctrlaltdel:/sbin/shutdown -t3 -r now

And change it to read:

# Disallow CTRL-ALT-DELETE
ca::ctrlaltdel:/bin/echo "ctrl-alt-delete has been disabled"

(You can use /bin/true, or /usr/bin/logger etc. here instead if you wish
- just watch out if someone tries ctrl-alt-del before /usr is mounted :)

Kind regards,

> -- 
> Ben Steeves                     _                    bcs@xxxxxxxxxx
>  The ASCII ribbon campaign     ( )            ben.steeves@xxxxxxxxx
>    against HTML e-mail          X                GPG ID: 0xB3EBF1D9
> http://www.metacon.ca/bcs      / \     Yahoo Messenger: ben_steeves
> 

--
Bryn M. Reeves
Instructor II  -  Red Hat Global Learning Services EMEA
 
Red Hat Europe          Tel:+44 (0)1483-734926      
10 Alan Turing Rd       Fax:+44 (0)1483-734956    
Surrey Research Park    Mob:+44 (0)7740-812997
Guildford, Surrey       email: breeves@xxxxxxxxxx
GU2 7YF, UK             Web:   http://www.europe.redhat.com




------------------------------

Message: 14
Date: Fri, 12 Aug 2005 06:39:46 -0700 (PDT)
From: arnuld fraser <fraser_feb@xxxxxxxxx>
Subject: VCD help
To: fedora-list@xxxxxxxxxx
Message-ID: <20050812133947.79810.qmail@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1

I have fedora core 3. it has "totem" and "helix" movie
players. But I am not able to play my VCDs and even
the videos(.MPG) i stored onto my hard-disk are not
played by these two players.

can anybody help me?


"The Great Intellectuals"



		
____________________________________________________
Start your day with Yahoo! - make it your home page 
http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs 
 



------------------------------

Message: 15
Date: Fri, 12 Aug 2005 14:46:31 +0100
From: Dave Mitchell <davem@xxxxxxxxx>
Subject: Re: Logins
To: For users of Fedora Core releases <fedora-list@xxxxxxxxxx>
Message-ID: <20050812134631.GM22016@xxxxxxxxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

On Fri, Aug 12, 2005 at 01:28:32PM +0100, Paul Howarth wrote:
> See the AutomaticLoginEnable and AutomaticLogin keywords (documented at 
> http://yippi.hypermall.com/gdm/gdm-documentation/x241.html) in 
> /etc/X11/gdm/gdm.conf to set it up again.

You can also do it via the GUI:

System settings > Login Screen > General > Automatic login

(that's FC3; I don't know if its moved for FC4)

-- 
Wesley Crusher gets beaten up by his classmates for being a smarmy git,
and consequently has a go at making some friends of his own age for a
change.
    -- Things That Never Happen in "Star Trek" #18



------------------------------

Message: 16
Date: Fri, 12 Aug 2005 08:15:59 -0600
From: Robin Laing <Robin.Laing@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: Re: mplayer as dependency error
To: For users of Fedora Core releases <fedora-list@xxxxxxxxxx>
Message-ID: <42FCAF1F.7010305@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed

Michael Schwendt wrote:
> On Thu, 11 Aug 2005 11:25:43 -0600, Robin Laing wrote:
> 
> 
>>3.  Some repositories are trying to work together.  This is a good sign 
>>and heading in the correct direction.  Some other repositories may not 
>>like the idea but if they want Linux to get ahead, then it is necessary.
> 
> 
> Is it the idea they don't like or the missing concept?
> 
> 
>>Here is a good link that I read yesterday on this issue.
> 
> 
> What's "good" about that link?
> 

Okay, I thought it was good because it was on topic and and showing that 
some repos are trying to work together.

-- 
Robin Laing



------------------------------

Message: 17
Date: Fri, 12 Aug 2005 07:19:31 -0700
From: Linux Newbee <linux.newbee@xxxxxxxxx>
Subject: Burnt ISO using k3b
To: fedora-list@xxxxxxxxxx
Message-ID: <417f040d050812071928d04a2a@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"

Hi
  I tried burning disc1.iso of FC4 using k3b (Tools --> CD Image) and i see 
the following directories
SRPMS
.discinfo
.eula
GPL
README
RPM-GPG-KEY[-[beta/fedora/fedora-rawhide/fedora-test/rawhide]
TRANS.TBL
files
 But the readme mentions about the following 
 /mnt/cdrom
 
|----> Fedora

| |----> RPMS -- binary packages

| `----> base -- information on this release of Fedora

| Core used by the installation process

|----> images -- boot and driver disk images

|----> isolinux -- files necessary to boot from CD-ROM

|----> README -- this file

|----> RELEASE-NOTES -- the latest information about this rel

ease

| of Fedora Core

`----> RPM-GPG-KEY -- GPG signature for packages from Red H

at

- - -

I donot see any images related entries and this is disc1.

What am i missing?

 Thanks in advance

 Govindan
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Message: 18
Date: Fri, 12 Aug 2005 09:39:53 -0500
From: akonstam@xxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: Re: Newbie. Java Path in Fedora not found
To: clive@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx,	For users of Fedora Core
	releases <fedora-list@xxxxxxxxxx>
Message-ID: <20050812143953.GA15774@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

On Fri, Aug 12, 2005 at 11:42:54AM +0100, Clive at Rational wrote:
> Hi,
> 
>    I am running Oxygen XML successfully under Fedora 4
> kernel 2.6.12
> 
>   However, before I run the program I have to issue
> the following command
> 
> export PATH=/usr/java/j2re1.4.2_08/bin:$PATH
> 
>   otherwise I get lots of error messages and OXygen
> does not run.
> 
>    Now I have searched around and found the following
> file and entry
> 
> /etc/profile.d/java.sh
> export PATH=$PATH:/usr/java/j2re1.4.2_08/bin
> 
>   However, this entry does not seem "sufficient" to
> define a path to Java. What do I need to do to the
> java.sh entry so I do not need to run the export
> command every time I want to run Oxygen?
> 
> Thanks 
> 
> Clive
Just put a command to extend the path in your .bash_profile. This line
is backwards in a sense:
export PATH=$PATH:/usr/java/j2re1.4.2_08/bin

You want the line:
export PATH=/usr/java/j2re1.4.2_08/bin:$PATH

-- 

=======================================================================
You are here:   
		***
		***
	     *********
	      *******
	       *****
		***
		 *

		 But you're not all there.
-------------------------------------------
Aaron Konstam
Computer Science
Trinity University
telephone: (210)-999-7484



------------------------------

Message: 19
Date: Fri, 12 Aug 2005 08:23:11 -0600
From: Robin Laing <Robin.Laing@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: Re: Lexmark printer drivers
To: For users of Fedora Core releases <fedora-list@xxxxxxxxxx>
Message-ID: <42FCB0CF.5040006@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed

Danie Thom wrote:
> Hi everyone
> 
> I have a Lexmark F4270 All-in-one printer.  I have just installed FC4 
> and now I am looking for a driver for this printer.  Can anyone please 
> point me in the right direction?
> 
> Thanks
> Danie

Have you checked http://linuxprinting.org/ ?

-- 
Robin Laing



------------------------------

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