I have been watching the ever expanding posts on this subject, and even put my two cents worth in once before - but I think that there is one point everyone is simply over looking. That is WHO is actually "designing" this operating system for us. VOLENTERS ! They do the work for nothing - and many of them are college age, or just out of school - and obviously quite brilliant. But that is how Linux on the whole is. Someone creates something he wants to use, and then he (or she) offers it for anyone else to use. Only problem his creates is - not all of us have the same sense of humor; and none of us over the age of 50 have the same sense of humor as we did when we were in our 20's. And as one gentleman pointed out - this is not isolated to Fidora! This brings in the financial point. You don't pay for something - you take what you get. You want it scutanized and "sanitized" you pay someone to do it, or you spend your time doing it yourself. That brings up another problem for allot of us (probably most of us) and that is we do not have he time to go through everything - and hat also means we do not have the time to "donate" towards the future of Fidora! So we leave that up to the brilliant younger people who have the time (and the few older people who's brilliant dreams have not been mashed, or who's time to persue these non-paying dreams has not been consumed by the effort needed today to make a living). Do we have an alternative? Something like Microsoft? Yah - when you turn the creative talent over to someone doing it for mainly money (ok - let's add ego and power)- you get something like Microsoft. But if Gates was not a Megalomaniac - he would not have succeeded in today's business world! Sad - but the truth. My suggestion - quit complaining, and donate some of your time to some of these cutting edge technologies. If that does not work for you - then concentrate on using Commercial Based Products - that you pay a little for, and you know someone has gone thorough most of the stuff for you. One side thought . . . . ... has anyone seen any "complaints" or even commens from anyone outside the US ? Considering so much of Linux seems to be worked on in other parts of the world . . . . . . . . . but then they don't have the hang ups I guess. I just think we have all chewed on this bone long enough. Let's move on to more creative endeavors. AC