On Mon, Jun 14, 2010 at 7:37 PM, Rahul Sundaram <metherid@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
Google does, Ubuntu does, Mandriva does. Pretty much every distribution does. But Red Hat doesn't have to? Does Red Hat want to become the next Sun?
It will just make the system unbootable to a GUI with the default kernel, which will get the newbie completely confused. Never had this problem with Windows. Understand the topo?
I've had my fair share of problems with akmod and decided to stick with kmod. Here's what a newbie would have to learn in order to use akmod:
http://fedorasolved.org/Members/zcat/akmods
from "Doing the Work".
Just past the first paragraph, he'll be back to Windows. Akmod is no excuse for kmod not working. If this excuse comes up every time a kmod is not in sysn with a new kernel, you might as well scrap kmod and tell new users that Fedora kernel updates are only possible after RTFM. Final.
That's not the problem. 3 kernel are kept. So you still have 2 kernels that you can theoritically boot from. Will the newbie figure out that if the latest kernel doesn't work, the former might?
> Is this done on purpose in order to chase new users away? Is somebody
> working for Ubuntu here?
This rhetoric makes sense only if you think that going the Sun way is not the way to go for Red Hat. And if you want newbies to join the Red Hat's ecosystem, telling them to RTFM just won't work. Things are going to have to work without RTFM.
But does Red Hat want to build an ecosystem to sustain newbies' support? Where is it headed? Soon Google will have its tablet out. applications will work in the browser. You tap this, you tap that and it works. Hardware and software are going to be devised as one. A chip with its own ID will make security stronger. (Of course, we all know what this means confidentiality-wise, but will the newbie care? I doubt it. ) Without security, the cloud would be just that, a cloud.
They're going to sell music, movies, whatever. Ubuntu plays the same game: they're going to have their tablet too:
http://www.channelregister.co.uk/2010/06/13/ubuntu_for_tablets/
So, you might think that Fedora/Red Hat will survive staying on idle simple-user-wise, asking its users to RTFM like ArchLinux does and caring about Sun's former customers?
I doubt it and I certainly believe that having the kernels and the kmods appearing in sync would be the lesser step in the good direction.
Excuse me for being a non-programmer and stating the obvious like I've done so many times, Try to understand it can get frustrating and that, short of rewriting the whole diatribe, sometimes a knee jerk comes handy.
On 06/15/2010 04:43 AM, Marcel Rieux wrote:Fedora doesn't really target newbies
> =====================================================
>
> So, the oldest kmod-nvidia is removed with the oldest kernel and it
> will still be possible to boot with the present kernel. .. but not
> with the new kernel because the new kmod-nvidia is not installed.
> Which means newbies will be completely dumbfounded as to why their
> system suddenly doesn't boot after an update.
Google does, Ubuntu does, Mandriva does. Pretty much every distribution does. But Red Hat doesn't have to? Does Red Hat want to become the next Sun?
Removing a kmod and a kernel doesn't make a system
unbootable.
It will just make the system unbootable to a GUI with the default kernel, which will get the newbie completely confused. Never had this problem with Windows. Understand the topo?
If you prefer to, you can switchover to using akmod
I've had my fair share of problems with akmod and decided to stick with kmod. Here's what a newbie would have to learn in order to use akmod:
http://fedorasolved.org/Members/zcat/akmods
from "Doing the Work".
Just past the first paragraph, he'll be back to Windows. Akmod is no excuse for kmod not working. If this excuse comes up every time a kmod is not in sysn with a new kernel, you might as well scrap kmod and tell new users that Fedora kernel updates are only possible after RTFM. Final.
or set
yum to preserve more kernels by default or never remove older kernels at
all. Look up /etc/yum.conf for that.
That's not the problem. 3 kernel are kept. So you still have 2 kernels that you can theoritically boot from. Will the newbie figure out that if the latest kernel doesn't work, the former might?
> Is this done on purpose in order to chase new users away? Is somebody
> working for Ubuntu here?
This sort of rhetoric is unnecessary if you are looking for help.
This rhetoric makes sense only if you think that going the Sun way is not the way to go for Red Hat. And if you want newbies to join the Red Hat's ecosystem, telling them to RTFM just won't work. Things are going to have to work without RTFM.
But does Red Hat want to build an ecosystem to sustain newbies' support? Where is it headed? Soon Google will have its tablet out. applications will work in the browser. You tap this, you tap that and it works. Hardware and software are going to be devised as one. A chip with its own ID will make security stronger. (Of course, we all know what this means confidentiality-wise, but will the newbie care? I doubt it. ) Without security, the cloud would be just that, a cloud.
They're going to sell music, movies, whatever. Ubuntu plays the same game: they're going to have their tablet too:
http://www.channelregister.co.uk/2010/06/13/ubuntu_for_tablets/
So, you might think that Fedora/Red Hat will survive staying on idle simple-user-wise, asking its users to RTFM like ArchLinux does and caring about Sun's former customers?
I doubt it and I certainly believe that having the kernels and the kmods appearing in sync would be the lesser step in the good direction.
Excuse me for being a non-programmer and stating the obvious like I've done so many times, Try to understand it can get frustrating and that, short of rewriting the whole diatribe, sometimes a knee jerk comes handy.
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