Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law. ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: William Jon McCann <william.jon.mccann@xxxxxxxxx> Date: Wed, 21 Apr 2010 12:02:47 -0400 Subject: Updates next steps To: Discussions about development for the Fedora desktop <desktop@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> Hey folks, We discussed this a bit on IRC yesterday but I wanted to bring it up on the list too. (here McCann refers to the Desktop list) Now that we have rough consensus that we should try to limit the volume of "pointless" updates, what is next? I propose we look at two things right away: 1. Limit the frequency of non-critical updates to once per week in stable releases 2. Establish norms or rules that limit the types of changes in stable releases to ensure the releases remain stable A concrete example of the kind of thing that I think we should try to avoid: Two days ago I installed updates for F12 (over a hundred random updates) then yesterday I noticed a lot more udpates (40ish) that included an update for vala 0.8.0 with the description "Update to new major release 0.8.0". Longer term, I'd like to see a more comprehensive plan similar to http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Desktop/Whiteboards/UpdateExperience but we probably need to work towards that incrementally. Thoughts? What is the best way to accomplish these two things? Jon -- desktop mailing list desktop@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/desktop my questions and concerns: 1. we do? 2. what constitutes 'pointless'? 3. shouldn't this be on the 'users' list? does it not affect other users? 4. how is 'critical' defined? 5. what is this 'stable release' ( as opposed to 'release' )? 6. what steps would be taken to ensure that this 'stability' does not interfere with 'incubate(ing) innovative new technologies'? 7. now we have proposal after proposal, trying to produce a "stable release" and insisting on imposing such a level of "stability" into Fedora's releases, that i fear the result would seriously interfere with the original goals of this fine distribution. have been poorly addressed, or not at all. instead of asking if these things _should_ be done, (and they ultimately include, for example, limiting updates to bugfixes and security patches) McCann says: " It is pretty clear that we want to make the user experience around updates better for our users - now we need to do it. There will be people who don't agree (at least until we demonstrate it is better by actually doing it) but we need to do it anyway. If possible, I'd really like to keep the discussion in this thread related to ideation on how we can accomplish the two things I mentioned. From that we can develop a proposal that includes the why." where "we" means either: "the people who are interested in designing and defining the user experience of this desktop thing." or "the project" i believe such ill-designed and extreme (check the subsumed proposals)* proposals deserves your consideration. * from Jesse Keating: " > 2. Establish norms or rules that limit the types of changes in stable > releases to ensure the releases remain stable > > I had started on a proposal that addresses this, or at least attempts to classify the types of updates we do, so that some rules could be layered on top of those types. https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Stable_Release_Updates_Proposal"; which page subsumes the Stable_release_updates_vision q.v. ccharles zeitler Love is the law, love under will. -- users mailing list users@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines
