Re: Sorbet on Fedora's future

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Am Samstag, den 20.03.2010, 01:30 -0400 schrieb Marcel Rieux:
> For a while, I've been arguing with very knowledgeable people here
> that there are way too many bugs in Fedora, 

I can only speak for myself or the packages I maintain, but IMO there
are only a few bugs. In LXDE and Xfce we have many bugs fixed even
before release that still affect other distributions.

[snipped]

> (1) The only option available in my Gigabyte MA770T-UD3P's BIOS
> offering only options for entering passwords, for exemple.

Sorry, I don't understand what you are trying to tell us. What does your
BIOS have to do with the OS?

> (2) For instance, "New File" entering the clipboard every time a new
> file is created.

I cannot reproduce this bug here, could you explain a little more in
detail? I created a new file in nautilus, thunar and pcmanfm and never
had "New File" in my paste buffer. Do you have a cliboard manager
running, preferably parcellite with the option to "synchronize
clipboards"? If so, the behavior is correct: "New file" was the primary
selection and is getting synced to the clipboard.

> In Linux Weekly News, Mr Sorbet... err, make this Corbet, has written
> a nonetheless delightful article on the matter of what is causing this
> avalanche of bugs in so-called "stable" Fedora releases. 

First of all you need to understand that the term "stable" has nothing
to do with "bug free". Stable in this context means that APIs don't
change.

> To me, the
> sorbet of the whole article pretty much freezes down to this:

Do you have and indications that any of the bugs you name are specific
to Fedora or that the number of bugs in Fedora is higher than in other
distributions so it is actually justified to speak of a "avalanche" 

[snipped]

> And rightly so, since not breaking stable releases is the most
> fundamental Fedora rule, as expressed here in the Stable release
> update vision:
> 
> "The update repositories for stable releases of the Fedora
> distribution should provide our users with a consistent and high
> quality stream of updates."

The word "vision" indicates that it's somehing we strive for but not
simething that is yet in place. The fact that we are not doing well in
testing updates doesn't mean that we cannot do better.

> If this is the Fedora's game, I'm wishing to play. Otherwise, I'll
> move to Ubuntu 

If Fedora is going have less and better tested updates, you are going to
switch to Ubuntu because Ubuntu has less updates?

> or, as security is important to me, CentOS or
> Scientific Linux, soon as RHEL 6 is released.

What makes you think that CentOS cares more about security than Fedora?

> So, one might ask, what will the contribution of non-geeks to Fedora
> be? Well, as I said, I have a problem with my mobo. I also can't get
> sound through HDMI to my TV. A recent update has made playing DVDs
> impossible... except with Kplayer! (not KMplayer) Etc.

I think the first contribution in your case is to file bugs, so we can
actually look at your problems. Please try to be detailed as possible.

> So, if there was a place where I could report those bugs without
> registering to 10,000 different bugzillas and dealing with
> don't-give-a-shit geeks, I certainly would fill them and would be more
> than interested in trying packages in update-testing to see if the fix
> works. 

Have you already registered at bugzilla.redhat.com? It's just one
registration.
Or have you already given feedback to an update in bodhi? You don't even
need to register.

Last but not least: Can you give us an example of developers not giving
a shit?

> But I'm certainly not interested in enabling update-testing
> just to see if new stuff i don't need works, and possibly break my
> system.

Again you are contradicting yourself again. You say you want to test
updates from testing... but you don't want to test them. Huh?
And what prevents you from installing particular updates from updates
testing instead of enabling it globally?

I am convinced that I you invest the same amount of time into filing bug
and testing updates as you put into writing mails on this list, it would
surely help us to fix bugs and make Fedora a better distribution.

Regards,
Christoph

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