On 03/20/2010 10:05 AM, Craig White wrote: > On Sat, 2010-03-20 at 01:30 -0400, Marcel Rieux wrote: > > >> So, if there was a place where I could report those bugs without >> registering to 10,000 different bugzillas and dealing with >> don't-give-a-shit geeks, I certainly would fill them and would be more >> than interested in trying packages in update-testing to see if the fix >> works. But I'm certainly not interested in enabling update-testing >> just to see if new stuff i don't need works, and possibly break my >> system. >> > ---- > the reality is that packagers do not always have the time and > inclination to read lists such as this and the bug reporting systems > have gotten us this far so it's clearly working. If you choose not to > participate, then don't. I suspect that if your bug reports are as > unfocused as your rants, they are likely to be disregarded anyway. > ---- > >> If my problems do not concern Fedora/Red Hat developers directly, they >> can address the bug to software developers upstream. If bugs take >> years to be fixed, maybe they can suggest another software... or >> desktop environment be used by default on Fedora. You know, Fedora/Red >> Hat certainly has the clout to wake up developers. OTOH, if Red Hat >> relies on disgruntled users to fill reports on bugs that never get >> fixed, users won't be the only ones to suffer. >> > ---- > 1 - your message doesn't get through to them. Bug reporting gets > through. > 2 - read this... > http://www.openldap.org/lists/openldap-software/201003/msg00081.html > you should realize that it's not just Fedora but rather that all of > the various distributions only have so much manpower to package software > from upstream, let alone write patches/make changes. You have the source > code and you can suggest patches which would greatly accelerate the > process of getting things fixed but of course that requires requisite > knowledge of programming, etc. Standing on a soap box and shouting this > pretty much comes off as noise from the peanut gallery and suggests that > the you don't really have a clue on what is actually involved. > ---- > >> What I wrote here might be in part ill founded. When you're not a >> developer, you can't comment with insight. It's an outsider's view, >> but a very clear fact remains: whether it's only a rant or a >> fullfledged case study, users must be allowed to express their POV >> freely and it should be taken into consideration. >> > ---- > who is it that is supposed to take your POV into consideration? People > who don't read this list? > ---- > >> Chasing users away with "Why don't you fill (no-use) bug reports?" or >> "You don't like it? The code is there, modify it!", the way it is >> typically done on Debian and Slackware groups, leads to disaster. >> > ---- > yeah, it's the same kind of disaster that got Linux this far and got you > a complete OS to install for no cost at all. I can see why you think it > is a disaster. > ---- > >> If flame wars wouldn't have been so common in the community, if user >> needs had been better taken care of, Debian could have achieved what >> Mark Shuttlewort did, which is build a community, the largest user >> base in the Linux world. So that, if you speak to Windows users >> contemplating a move to Linux, the first distro that comes to their >> mind is Ubuntu. That's because it's pretty much the only distribution >> the generalist press talks about. >> > ---- > Ubuntu has tried to carve out the Desktop as its primary user base. > Honestly, I don't know why you aren't using Ubuntu instead of Fedora. > ---- > >> Now, Shuttlweworth is planning to offer an iTune look-alike service >> for his users. He's going to bring some money in to pay his >> developers. It's not the financial clout that Google gives to >> ChromeOS, but it's a move in the right direction. >> > ---- > Maemo and ChromeOS are niche market products and not germane to > comparison to a complete distribution. > ---- > >> Apple, which is certainly far from showing an open-source attitude(1), >> makes billions with BSD-based OS X using "repackaged" standard >> no-real-specs-available(2) hardware and still gains market share over >> Microsoft. >> > ---- > I have personal feelings on this... > - Apple provides an inferior product if you care about installing open > source packages, UNIX or Linux compatibility. > - Apple is all about vendor lock-in much like Microsoft > - Apple donates little to the open source community > ---- > >> At 19 years old. Linux is certainly not a new kid on the block >> anymore. How come, even with Ubuntu, it is still howering at around 1% >> of the market share? How come all the brawlers who invade Linux >> groups/forums/lists are still allowed to bash new users pretending >> that market share is not important in order to be accepted in >> standards definition, that they'll still be surfing the net with Lynx >> ten years from now? >> > ---- > Most of the people I know using Linux are unconcerned about market > share. They use it because it works and it's cost effective. Sheep are > still sheep. If your yardstick only measures Linux value based upon > market share, then I'm afraid that it will come up short for many years > to come. > ---- > >> When, I installed the NVIDIA drivers, I went, first place, to >> fedorafaq.org. Since Fedora couldn't provide instructions on >> installing proprietary drivers, it seemed like an appropriate place. >> But the instructions didn't work. It took some time before I got to >> rpmfusion, the provider of the kmod package. Still, though I asked the >> maintainer to correct his instructions, the Fedorafaq page is still >> unchanged. >> > ---- > take it up with 'FedoraFAQ' and rpmfusion people. They do take feedback. > Their web sites are not operated by Fedora > ---- > >> IMO, Fedora releases will have to become much more stable and urgency >> to get more market share will have to be established as a clear >> priority. Very F-A-S-T. The Stable release update vision should be >> followed "à la lettre". >> > ---- > If Fedora doesn't suit your needs there are a lot of other Linux > distributions available and one of the others might be more to your > liking. > > Craig > I just came from Win 7 ultimate x64 and tested all the Linux Distros. Interger speed was average with win 7 when I tested ubuntu, Debian, Opensuse and the only one that gave me a huge increase in interger mips was Fedora 12 I could be wrong and benchies from one platform to another could be out but ubuntu gave me a interger speed of 9999 mips/core, win 7 7566 mips/core Debian 8560 mips / core.... Fedora 15600 mips/core It was also the only package where I actually had success in Nvidia Drivers installing correctly. As far as I am concerned Fedora is it and I will never change from now on. I just hope the next kernel update and nvidia drivers are compatible as nouveau does not enable cuda device. Cuda support with nouveau is needed mmamiga6 > > -- users mailing list users@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines
