On Fri, May 23, 2008 at 11:47 AM, Tim <ignored_mailbox@xxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote: > On Sat, 2008-05-24 at 00:08 +1000, David Timms wrote: >> Yes, and shoot it with the heat gun and so on. But is there some >> software designed to do stress testing ? > > I've often asked something similar from PC shops, as their testing > seemed to comprise of just seeing if it'll boot and stay running for > half an hour... > Yes, people do not realize how hard it is to pinpoint a hardware problem. Many are under the impression there is some magic involved and results should be instant and/or provide instant "Star Trek" style solutions. We are not quite there yet , especially as far down the totem pole as your average pc repair shop. I try to use the computer as much as possible but time is money and you can easily run up a bill that exceeds the cost of a cheap machine quite quickly. However if you feel you have a genuine hardware problem then I would do the following. The order will vary depending on where you think, based on your observations, the problem lies. 0. Always observe proper static handling precautions!! I cannot stress this enough. You will cook your board and never feel a thing. 1. Do not expect instant star trek style results, this isn't the twenty-third century 2. Alan's recipe is as good a way to start as any I have seen or heard. 3. Make sure to start as close to bare board as you can get. Unplug everything you don't need to boot your OS. So everything but the harddrive,video card, RAM and CPU ( if you have on board video , use that instead of the high end 512mb nvidia/ati card for testing, video cards these days suck up alot of power and mine ruined a power supply for me because i did not check the spec and the card needed more power than my 500watt was capable of delivering over a 12V rail.) 4. I have seen many people say they ran memtest86 for one to three hours. I personally like to leave it running all night, though of course people will say they are not in a hurry and then call two hours later to see if its fixed yet. I have noted many of the more experienced folks on this list recommending 24 hours or longer for memtest86. It seems like a long time but peace of mind is priceless so keep that in mind. 5. Reconnect devices one at a time and use the reattached device i.e cd burner to read and burn cd's, a bad cdrom can hold up the boot process or cause other weird behavior. Remember it could easily be a failing IDE controller on the motherboard. Try, if you have one, a separate controller card. Same goes for USB. These boards where absolutely everything is integrated onto the board may make for a slight speed advantage but can be a real pain in the ass when something starts to fail. 6. Be careful if you find alot of dust built up inside. Dust can cause static damage and reckless removal of dust can kill your machine quite quickly. Sometimes the dust is the only thing holding it together : ) Never keep the compressed air closer than 6 or 8 inches, blow the dust off at odd angles, you don't have to get all the dust out in one go. Let things settle or at least do not blow the air directly onto the board from 3 inches away. Do not blow out a massive amount of dust and plug it all back in and power on. Let it settle, a little patience goes a long way here. 7. Of course swap out RAM and CPU if possible. Most bioses have menus where you can check temperature. Intermittent problems are often caused as the temp increases. Maybe remove, clean, reapply thermal tape or paste to heatsink. If your using alot of high end gear, like sound cards or especially video cards, do not stack them in adjacent PCI slots if you can avoid it. If the air in the case isn't moving, the temperature climbs quickly. Many low end machines do not include a separate case fan and often have 24 pin power connectors on the board but the powersupply is only using a twenty pin plug. I have seen this in some eMachines models, it probably won't be an issue until you start adding more RAM, upgrading processors,adding drives etc. 8. Remember that your powersupply says 500 watts but that is peak output, you don't run a race car wide open all the time. 9. Always observe proper static handling precautions!! > I think that only something from the board manufacturer could do that. > Only they'd know exactly how their combination of hardware should > perform, and I can't seem them releasing something that probed their > hardware completely, it'd just aid in reverse engineering. > They do make POST code readers. I like the one I have access to but it is less useful than I originally thought it would be. Sometimes finding the codes for your bios&board can be a real pain. Also they are most useful when the board won't POST which usually means they are good only for confirming suspicion because if board components are failing your better off, financially anyway, buying a new board. >> I'm talking about a machine that has had swaps to power supply, disk, >> ram, ram slots, is clean, reinsertion of cards etc, yet nothing >> definitive is showing up. > > Tends to point the finger at motherboard or CPU... > > I hope you always took anti-static precautions during handling. But > it's just as easy for it have been zapped before you ever touched it, > and it took "this long" for the problem to appear. Static damage is > like that - mostly not instant, just weakening something for a later > catastrophe. Excellent point that many do not realize. There is a mistaken notion that if it works then everything is tip top. All comments, criticisms, questions, pointing out of incorrect info welcome and appreciated. 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