Fedora Users — Re: fedora-list Digest, Vol 46, Issue 122

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Today's Topics:

1. Re: list subject (Tim)
2. Re: list subject (Tim)
3. Re: Problem with random disks mount sequence (Tim)
4. Re: SELinux enforcing, an external ntfs-3g mount, Samba and
Fedora 8 (Tim)
5. Re: raid1 (Les Mikesell)
6. Re: hald/haldaemon cpu usage (John Wendel)
7. Re: link-local (Tim)
8. Re: Re: Re: F8 Network Woe (Tim)
9. Re: Why cant I make my laptop ethernet cards recognise 10Mbs?
(Tim)
10. Re: list subject (Les Mikesell)
11. Re: Stupid bash question (Tony Nelson)
12. Re: access ipod files? (Tim)
13. Re: access ipod files? (Tim)
14. Re: It Works fine... System lockups with F8 and Firefox
(David L. Gehrt)
15. Re: Update problems! (Tim)
16. Re: [FC8] where does gdmsetup hide the "Welcome" text? (Tim)
17. Hello Everyone. (zeeshan nadeem)

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Message: 1
Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2007 12:10:53 +1030
From: Tim
Subject: Re: list subject
To: For users of Fedora
Message-ID: <1197423653.2850.4.camel@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Content-Type: text/plain

On Tue, 2007-12-11 at 11:22 -0600, Les Mikesell wrote:
> Doesn't that mean you have to jump around in the folders whenever a
> new message comes in or you want to reply to something? I don't have
> time for that.

Oh cobblers! Unless you have a really crap client that's not a time
consuming thing to do. It's far quicker to switch over to the Fedora
folder to read all the new Fedora mail, minus the other stuff
interspersed.

Scrolling through an inbox with 300 new messages a day is time
consuming, finding the broken apart parts of threads is time consuming,
managing an inbox with 3479 messages sitting in is time consuming.

--
[tim@bigblack ~]$ uname -ipr
2.6.23.1-10.fc7 i686 i386

Using FC 4, 5, 6 & 7, plus CentOS 5. Today, it's FC7.

Don't send private replies to my address, the mailbox is ignored.
I read messages from the public lists.

------------------------------

Message: 2
Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2007 12:13:09 +1030
From: Tim
Subject: Re: list subject
To: For users of Fedora
Message-ID: <1197423789.2850.5.camel@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Content-Type: text/plain

On Tue, 2007-12-11 at 16:48 -0600, Les Mikesell wrote:
> Don't you still have to visit each folder if you actually want to read
> the mail or even see the subjects?

You still have to scroll through your entire inbox to view the list...

--
[tim@bigblack ~]$ uname -ipr
2.6.23.1-10.fc7 i686 i386

Using FC 4, 5, 6 & 7, plus CentOS 5. Today, it's FC7.

Don't send private replies to my address, the mailbox is ignored.
I read messages from the public lists.

------------------------------

Message: 3
Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2007 12:24:38 +1030
From: Tim
Subject: Re: Problem with random disks mount sequence
To: For users of Fedora
Message-ID: <1197424478.2850.10.camel@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Content-Type: text/plain

Mikkel:
>> were you booting with the USB drives plugged in?

wwp:
> Yes, as usually - this has never been a problem w/ FC5, /dev/sda was
> always the internal disk.

I, too, dislike the drive assignment shuffling. I really think that hda
ought to have been kept for IDE, sda for SCSI, and we should have used
some form of /dev/usb for USB. That way, you'd have clear and
unambiguous ways to address the hardware, where you expect to find it.
And you also have volume labelling for addressing some volume by name,
no matter where or how it's attached.

If you boot with your USB drives connected, but never boot *from* the
USB ports, you could try altering your BIOS booting arrangements, so
that it doesn't include the USB ports, or they're fallback rather than
early choices. You'd expect, this way, that they're looked at later on,
and the other drive gets the first designator (/dev/sda).

--
[tim@bigblack ~]$ uname -ipr
2.6.23.1-10.fc7 i686 i386

Using FC 4, 5, 6 & 7, plus CentOS 5. Today, it's FC7.

Don't send private replies to my address, the mailbox is ignored.
I read messages from the public lists.

------------------------------

Message: 4
Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2007 12:31:00 +1030
From: Tim
Subject: Re: SELinux enforcing, an external ntfs-3g mount, Samba and
Fedora 8
To: For users of Fedora
Message-ID: <1197424860.2850.17.camel@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Content-Type: text/plain

Craig White:
>>> Mount the disk with uid/gid that you want.

Tim:
>> Without some sort of additional user mapping between which user is which
>> on Windows versus Linux, I can't see how you could avoid that.

Craig White:
> I don't understand your point.
>
> I know that a fat/vfat mount doesn't understand posix attributes and
> they cannot be stored on the filesystem so the uid/gid is declared at
> the time of mounting (or if undeclared, root:root because only root can
> mount the filesystem unless designated otherwise, i.e. by hal or within
> fstab).

Ownership, not permissions.

On Windows, users Tim, Fred, and Barney save their files, and their
files are owned by themselves, with the Windows filing system knowing
the association between files and particular users.

Linux uses a different user identifier system. It can tell that *those*
Windows files are owned by three different people. But without some
mapping that says user 500 on Linux is Tim, and user X on Windows is the
same Tim, and so on for the other users, there isn't a way for each
users files to be owned by the same users on both systems.

Dismounting and remounting the drive with the next user owning all the
files is a mess, and useless for multi-user systems where there actually
are multiple users using it at the same time.

Removable media is a bigger pain. You can plug it into systems which
have completely different users.

--
[tim@bigblack ~]$ uname -ipr
2.6.23.1-10.fc7 i686 i386

Using FC 4, 5, 6 & 7, plus CentOS 5. Today, it's FC7.

Don't send private replies to my address, the mailbox is ignored.
I read messages from the public lists.

------------------------------

Message: 5
Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2007 20:01:34 -0600
From: Les Mikesell
Subject: Re: raid1
To: For users of Fedora
Message-ID: <475F40FE.5010404@xxxxxxxxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed

Sam Varshavchik wrote:
> tony.chamberlain@xxxxxxxxx writes:
>
>> This is of course a more recent installation.
>>
>> I just found that in /etc/cron.daily there is a file with a script
>> (directory name changed for confidentiality)
>>
>> cd /a/b/c/d
>> find . -name '*log*' -exec rm -f {} \;
>>
>> So if there is no /a/b/c/d it will stay in whatever directory it is in
>> (probably root). That is why like initlog, login_pam,so etc.
>> have been removed.
>
> You're boned. Reinstall. And fire the wiseguy who wrote that script.

Unless it was written 20+ years ago when /bin/sh used to exit on failed
cd's unless in interactive mode. Now you need to
cd somewhere || exit
to avoid breakage.

--
Les Mikesell
lesmikesell@xxxxxxxxx

------------------------------

Message: 6
Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2007 18:03:08 -0800
From: John Wendel
Subject: Re: hald/haldaemon cpu usage
To: For users of Fedora
Message-ID: <475F415C.8020008@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed

Konstantin Svist wrote:
> John Wendel wrote:
>> Konstantin Svist wrote:
>>> Hi all,
>>>
>>> I'm curious about haldaemon - for some reason, it takes up 3-5% cpu
>>> at all times on my computer.
>>>
>>> Why would it do that?
>>>
>>> Thanks
>>>
>>>
>>
>> "service haldaemon stop" works good for me.
>>
>> You could run strace and figure out what stupid thing it's doing and
>> file a bug report.
>>
>
> Thanks John,
>
> I'm kind of wary of killing off daemons that might be necessary to keep
> the system running, and I don't know exactly what this one does.
> I *could* run strate, but decided to first ask if the problem is already
> known (which is usually very likely)
>
>
>
>

I never run haldaemon and my system works fine. You need it if you
want to mount a USB device (or other hotplugable device). When I need
it, I start it, let it work and then stop it again. My computer is
slow (PIII) so I need all the cycles for myself.

Here's all the daemons I run (this is a desktop, not a server).

messagebus 0:off 1:off 2:off 3:on 4:on 5:on 6:off
network 0:off 1:off 2:on 3:on 4:on 5:on 6:off
sshd 0:off 1:off 2:on 3:on 4:on 5:on 6:off

Regards,

John

------------------------------

Message: 7
Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2007 12:34:38 +1030
From: Tim
Subject: Re: link-local
To: For users of Fedora
Message-ID: <1197425078.2850.22.camel@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Content-Type: text/plain

On Tue, 2007-12-11 at 22:55 +0100, Gijs wrote:
> Not completely sure yet, but I would guess link-local would be your
> local loopback (ie 127.0.0.1).

No, link-local is the 169.254.x.y auto/random address scheme, for when
there's no DHCP server and the machines pick random unique addresses for
themselves, just so that they each have some IP address.

See: Bonjour or ZeroConf

It seems that Linux still has entries for it in the routing table, even
if you're not currently using that addressing scheme. It's probably
easier to leave them preset, so that no further configuration changes
need making should something connect up using one of those addresses, or
the local machine suddenly started using one, itself.

--
[tim@bigblack ~]$ uname -ipr
2.6.23.1-10.fc7 i686 i386

Using FC 4, 5, 6 & 7, plus CentOS 5. Today, it's FC7.

Don't send private replies to my address, the mailbox is ignored.
I read messages from the public lists.

------------------------------

Message: 8
Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2007 12:41:03 +1030
From: Tim
Subject: Re: Re: Re: F8 Network Woe
To: For users of Fedora
Message-ID: <1197425463.2850.29.camel@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Content-Type: text/plain

Aaron Konstam:
>> Go to another machine and run dig on the contested ip address and find out
>> what its name of the machine. You can also find out its machine address.

Jonathan Allen:
> # dig 192.168.1.6
> ; <<>> DiG 9.2.3 <<>> 192.168.1.6
> ;; global options: printcmd
> ;; Got answer:
> ;; ->>HEADER<<- opcode: QUERY, status: NXDOMAIN, id: 21219
> ;; flags: qr rd ra; QUERY: 1, ANSWER: 0, AUTHORITY: 1, ADDITIONAL: 0
>
> ;; QUESTION SECTION:
> ;192.168.1.6. IN A
>
> ;; AUTHORITY SECTION:
> . 10240 IN SOA a.root-servers.net. nstld.verisign-grs.com. 2007121100 1800 900 604800 86400
>
> ;; Query time: 34 msec
> ;; SERVER: 158.152.1.58#53(158.152.1.58)
> ;; WHEN: Tue Dec 11 16:05:44 2007
> ;; MSG SIZE rcvd: 104
>
> I am not sure what that has told me.

Only that *your* DNS server doesn't know anything about that address
(there was no "ANSWER SECTION").

This means nothing in the grand scheme of things (whether something is
using that address, or not). IPs don't have to be registered in a DNS
server.

I'd first check if it were the machine, itself, that was thinking that
IP was in use. Pull out the network cable, try "ifconfig eth0
192.168.1.6" (to manually assign that address to the box) and see if it
still protests that the address is in use while it's not connected to
any other equipment. If you get a complaint, now, you just have to fix
this machine, and you can ignore the rest of your network.

There's something vaguely familiar about this issue, with some sort of
phantom lingering about, but I can't recall the details. I can't recall
whether it was on this list, but searching through it for that error
message might be worth it.

--
[tim@bigblack ~]$ uname -ipr
2.6.23.1-10.fc7 i686 i386

Using FC 4, 5, 6 & 7, plus CentOS 5. Today, it's FC7.

Don't send private replies to my address, the mailbox is ignored.
I read messages from the public lists.

------------------------------

Message: 9
Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2007 12:45:12 +1030
From: Tim
Subject: Re: Why cant I make my laptop ethernet cards recognise 10Mbs?
To: For users of Fedora
Message-ID: <1197425712.2850.33.camel@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Content-Type: text/plain

On Tue, 2007-12-11 at 12:00 -0500, William Hooper wrote:
> If it is indeed a cross-over cable, maybe the device is expecting a
> straight through cable?

The standard is a straight through cable for things that are supposed to
be connected together (e.g. computer to a switch or hub) and cross-overs
to things being directly connected together that would normally go
through something else (e.g. computers directly together).

I wouldn't expect any device to "expect" the wrong type of cable
according to the *usual* ways of cabling things. Quite a few things
will automatically accommodate using the wrong cable, but I wouldn't
expect that sort of behaviour.

--
[tim@bigblack ~]$ uname -ipr
2.6.23.1-10.fc7 i686 i386

Using FC 4, 5, 6 & 7, plus CentOS 5. Today, it's FC7.

Don't send private replies to my address, the mailbox is ignored.
I read messages from the public lists.

------------------------------

Message: 10
Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2007 20:21:29 -0600
From: Les Mikesell
Subject: Re: list subject
To: For users of Fedora
Message-ID: <475F45A9.7040702@xxxxxxxxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed

Tim wrote:
> On Tue, 2007-12-11 at 11:22 -0600, Les Mikesell wrote:
>> Doesn't that mean you have to jump around in the folders whenever a
>> new message comes in or you want to reply to something? I don't have
>> time for that.
>
> Oh cobblers! Unless you have a really crap client that's not a time
> consuming thing to do. It's far quicker to switch over to the Fedora
> folder to read all the new Fedora mail, minus the other stuff
> interspersed.

Why should I care whether I read one fedora message, then a Centos
message or 2 fedora messages in a row?

> Scrolling through an inbox with 300 new messages a day is time
> consuming, finding the broken apart parts of threads is time consuming,
> managing an inbox with 3479 messages sitting in is time consuming.

I rarely scroll anywhere - the new messages are on top and I read down,
mostly deleting as I go. And my mail client will reassemble a thread
in the rare case that there are earlier ones that I'd need to make sense
out of the most recent. I want the mailer to bring the messages to me
instead of me having to go find them.

--
Les Mikesell
lesmikesell@xxxxxxxxx

------------------------------

Message: 11
Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2007 21:22:27 -0500
From: Tony Nelson
Subject: Re: Stupid bash question
To:
Message-ID:
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

At 12:05 PM -0500 12/11/07, Joe Smith wrote:
>Mikkel L. Ellertson wrote:
>> One thing that would probably help your understanding is that [ is
>> actually a command. It is usually a shell built-in command, but it
>> is also a command in /usr/bin, and is the same as the test command.
>> ...
>
>Mmm, curious. I wonder why are they /not/ the same command?
>
>$ type [ test
>[ is a shell builtin
>test is a shell builtin
>$ ls -li /usr/bin/{[,test}
>1234416 -rwxr-xr-x 1 root root 31404 2007-12-05 08:25 /usr/bin/[
>1234972 -rwxr-xr-x 1 root root 29032 2007-12-05 08:24 /usr/bin/test
>
>I always thought that [ and test were links to the same binary.
>
>I guess disk blocks aren't as precious as they once were ;-)

The reason seems weak to me, but test does not require a closing square
bracket, while [ does, and:

At 6:22 PM +0200 5/11/07, Stepan Kasal wrote:
>Hi,
>
>On Fri, May 11, 2007 at 04:44:39PM +0200, Matthias Saou wrote:
>> single square brackets, I thought "[" was a symlink to the
>> coreutils "test" command, [..]
>
>AFAIK, it used to be hard link, not symlink.
>
>> -rwxr-xr-x 1 root root 32168 Apr 17 13:48 /usr/bin/[
>> -rwxr-xr-x 1 root root 29544 Apr 17 13:48 /usr/bin/test
>
>GNU Coding Standards now declare that the behaviour of binary
>should not depend on its name.
--
____________________________________________________________________
TonyN.:'
'

------------------------------

Message: 12
Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2007 12:55:31 +1030
From: Tim
Subject: Re: access ipod files?
To: For users of Fedora
Message-ID: <1197426331.2850.38.camel@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Content-Type: text/plain

On Tue, 2007-12-11 at 14:18 -0500, Bob Goodwin wrote:
> I don't know where he was plugging it in to charge it but obviously
> it was a USB without power. The battery was dead!

A lot of devices expect power from USB in a manner against the specs
(wanting too much current without specifically asking for it, or wanting
more than can be supplied, anyway). On some computers they'll
accommodate, others will not and you'll not get enough current to run
the device, and you can get random USB failures while you use your PC.

You can get 5 Volt plugpacks that have a female USB connector, and
that'll allow you to charge USB powered devices without a PC. If you're
just playing an Ipod, and rarely changing the contents, that's more
practical that running a PC just to charge its batteries.

--
[tim@bigblack ~]$ uname -ipr
2.6.23.1-10.fc7 i686 i386

Using FC 4, 5, 6 & 7, plus CentOS 5. Today, it's FC7.

Don't send private replies to my address, the mailbox is ignored.
I read messages from the public lists.

------------------------------

Message: 13
Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2007 12:59:20 +1030
From: Tim
Subject: Re: access ipod files?
To: For users of Fedora
Message-ID: <1197426560.2850.42.camel@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Content-Type: text/plain

On Tue, 2007-12-11 at 15:27 -0500, Bob Goodwin wrote:
> Perhaps I don't have the right cable?

You might want to tell the list exactly what model iPod you have.
Different models used different schemes. Some had Firewire and USB
connections, using one for power and one for data.

You could just have a broken cable. There's four wires in USB, two
power, two data. If a data wire broke but power didn't, you could see a
device turn on, but not actually be usable.

You could be trying to run it powered from your USB port where your USB
port isn't able to supply enough current (try going through a powered
hub, instead), you could have a wonky USB port on the computer (try a
different port - my computer's front-panel ports connect through crap
cables, they don't work well with high speed USB).

--
[tim@bigblack ~]$ uname -ipr
2.6.23.1-10.fc7 i686 i386

Using FC 4, 5, 6 & 7, plus CentOS 5. Today, it's FC7.

Don't send private replies to my address, the mailbox is ignored.
I read messages from the public lists.

------------------------------

Message: 14
Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2007 18:32:49 -0800
From: "David L. Gehrt"
Subject: Re: It Works fine... System lockups with F8 and Firefox
To: For users of Fedora
Message-ID: <200712120232.lBC2Wn4P015382@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>

This is what happens when you try to assist Karl Larsen:

> Around 12:29am on Wednesday, December 12, 2007 (UK time), Karl Larsen
> scrawled:

> > Steve your just a old man that is still pushing the really stupid
> > idea that if it was not invented at Fedora it is crap. This binary

=== message truncated ===

Best Regards,

Rambod Kamaei (PhD)

CCIE, CCNP, Linux Expert.

Tel: +98 21 22643500 to 9

Cell: +98 912 2185672

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