All: I've tried to every trick in the "book" to get yum to work through the proxy: 1. created HTTP_PROXY variables 2. Added entries to the /etc/yum.conf file But I still get the following error: [Errno 4] IOError: <urlopen error (-2, 'Name or service not known')> I'm currently within the Win2k3 environment using ISA server as a proxy front end. Please help Chris -----Original Message----- From: fedora-list-bounces@xxxxxxxxxx [mailto:fedora-list-bounces@xxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of fedora-list-request@xxxxxxxxxx Sent: Thursday, September 06, 2007 1:48 PM To: fedora-list@xxxxxxxxxx Subject: fedora-list Digest, Vol 43, Issue 46 Send fedora-list mailing list submissions to fedora-list@xxxxxxxxxx To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-list or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to fedora-list-request@xxxxxxxxxx You can reach the person managing the list at fedora-list-owner@xxxxxxxxxx When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of fedora-list digest..." Today's Topics: 1. Re: kernel panic (Jacques B.) 2. Re: kernel panic (Andy Green) 3. RE: Dual-booting F7 and WinXP on separate harddisks (McGuffey, David C.) 4. Re: kernel panic (Andy Green) 5. Re: kernel panic (Craig White) 6. Re: figuring out all wireless connections on fedora 6/7 (Andy Green) 7. RE: fedora-list Digest, Vol 43, Issue 44 (McGuffey, David C.) 8. Re: kernel panic (Craig White) 9. Re: kernel panic (Paulo Cavalcanti) 10. Re: openVPN (Kevin Kempter) 11. Re: kernel panic (Tim) 12. Re: Dual-booting F7 and WinXP on separate harddisks (Mikkel L. Ellertson) 13. Re: How to install Thunderbird in linux? (Bo Berglund) 14. Re: kernel panic (Tim) 15. Re: How to install Thunderbird in linux? (Mikkel L. Ellertson) 16. Re: kernel panic (Andy Green) 17. Re: SV: SV: Install mailman (Todd Zullinger) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Message: 1 Date: Thu, 6 Sep 2007 12:05:44 -0400 From: "Jacques B." <jjrboucher@xxxxxxxxx> Subject: Re: kernel panic To: "For users of Fedora" <fedora-list@xxxxxxxxxx> Message-ID: <a937d2190709060905w62aca883l315ae255358e0fed@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 On 9/6/07, Andy Green <andy@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote: > Somebody in the thread at some point said: > > > The title of this thread - "kernel panic" - tells me that it was not > > booting to the kernel (stage 2 boot loader). So either grub was > > wrong (looking at the wrong drive/partition because the settings > > were from > > No if I understood it, it was booting the kernel fine. After it ran > out of initrd though, it was unable to find the actual root filesystem > partition. Under those circumstances it does say: > > Kernel panic - not syncing: Attempted to kill init! > > so "panic" was the right phrase here, even though it makes one think > of something quite different. > Thanks Andy. I found this on Wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Forced-linux-kernel-panic-under-qemu.jpg where it has the kernel panic you mention. So am I to understand that the first two lines in grub.conf will have completed properly (root ..., and kernel ...) and it's only the initrd where the failure occurs (and only when trying to swap the kernel in RAM for the one on the hard drive)? At this point it's for my own trouble shooting knowledge and understanding of the boot process that I ask this seeing Karl has resolved that portion of his problem. Thanks, Jacques B. ------------------------------ Message: 2 Date: Thu, 06 Sep 2007 17:09:12 +0100 From: Andy Green <andy@xxxxxxxxxxx> Subject: Re: kernel panic To: For users of Fedora <fedora-list@xxxxxxxxxx> Message-ID: <46E02628.3090302@xxxxxxxxxxx> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Somebody in the thread at some point said: >> As I pointed out 18 hours ago, if it was the case the root=(LABEL=/ >> ?) part of the kernel commandline in /boot/grub/grub.conf no longer >> matched the partitions on the drive for some reason, it could have >> directly > >> explained it. > > > Because it is cached. It is necessary to delete > > */etc/blkid/blkid.tab > > *before rebooting the first time. > > Mine looks like this: > > <device DEVNO="0x0802" TIME="1189078643" LABEL="/" > UUID="9d36358b-a777-4df2-8ac8-782a972145df" SEC_TYPE="ext2" > TYPE="ext3">/dev/sda2</device> > > If the new "/" in my case is no longer /dev/sda2 it will not work > (unless I delete the cache). Well it's interesting to hear about that file, which is new to me. But unless you're proposing that it does mount the correct / filesystem, reads this file on /etc from that filesystem, and only then errors out, I don't see how it can explain the symptoms as I understood them. -Andy ------------------------------ Message: 3 Date: Thu, 6 Sep 2007 12:18:09 -0400 From: "McGuffey, David C." <DAVID.C.MCGUFFEY@xxxxxxxx> Subject: RE: Dual-booting F7 and WinXP on separate harddisks To: "Steve Snyder" <swsnyder@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>, <fedora-list@xxxxxxxxxx> Message-ID: <41917B18A9DD5F4BAA60624B4453688D64BF78@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > -----Original Message----- > From: Steve Snyder [mailto:swsnyder@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] > Sent: 06 September, 2007 11:45 > To: fedora-list@xxxxxxxxxx > Cc: McGuffey, David C. > Subject: Re: Dual-booting F7 and WinXP on separate harddisks > > On Thursday 06 September 2007 9:49:49 am McGuffey, David C. wrote: > > MBR, all managed by lilo. That install went mostly automatic and I > > didn't have to tweak any settings in the BIOS or lilo...it all just > > worked. > > > > I've looked at a bunch of dual-boot guidance but I'm not finding > > what I need to deal with two separate hd each with their own os and > > MBR. Maybe it is there, I'm just not understanding it. > > > > This should be easy...what do I need to do to get grub to chainload > > WinXP on hd1? > > I have a similar setup, with F7 on sda (1st SCSI hard disk) and Win2K > on sdb (2nd SCSI hard disk). > > The trick is that Windows wants to boot from the 1st hard disk. The > solution is to have GRUB tell it that the 2nd HD is the 1st one. See > below for a snippet of my config file. > > Hope this helps. > > ------ > > title Fedora (2.6.22.4-65.fc7) > root (hd0,0) > kernel /boot/vmlinuz-2.6.22.4-65.fc7 ro root=/dev/sda1 vga=0x305 > initrd /boot/initrd-2.6.22.4-65.fc7.img > > title Win2K/SP4 > rootnoverify (hd1,0) > map (hd0) (hd1) > map (hd1) (hd0) > chainloader +1 Thanks. I read that in several dual-boot HowTo docs...but all were dated and discussed this problem with Win 9x. In the past I've had WinXP boot from a partition on the 2nd or 3rd hard disk, so I assumed that Microsoft fixed this cone-headed problem after Win 9x. I'll give it a try tonight. Dave McGuffey Principal Information System Security Engineer SAIC, IISBU, Columbia, MD 410.865.7972 (w) ------------------------------ Message: 4 Date: Thu, 06 Sep 2007 17:18:48 +0100 From: Andy Green <andy@xxxxxxxxxxx> Subject: Re: kernel panic To: For users of Fedora <fedora-list@xxxxxxxxxx> Message-ID: <46E02868.3040208@xxxxxxxxxxx> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Somebody in the thread at some point said: > where it has the kernel panic you mention. So am I to understand that > the first two lines in grub.conf will have completed properly (root > ..., and kernel ...) and it's only the initrd where the failure occurs > (and only when trying to swap the kernel in RAM for the one on the > hard drive)? No, that's not how it works. What happens is that before doing anything with Linux, grub reads the kernel image and the initrd image both into RAM at different start addresses. If there is a problem doing that, then grub will error out before the kernel boot begins. Once it has them loaded, grub is completely done... it jumps into the Linux kernel image. Once the kernel decompresses and finishes getting started, it mounts the initrd copy in memory and starts running the "init" script it finds in there. That script loads some critical modules (to access the HDD controllers for example) from the initrd filesystem and then tries to mount the real root filesystem from the HDD. It is at that point Karl was dropping dead. > At this point it's for my own trouble shooting knowledge and > understanding of the boot process that I ask this seeing Karl has > resolved that portion of his problem. Well, yes Karl apparently made the problem go away somehow leaving nobody the wiser. -Andy ------------------------------ Message: 5 Date: Thu, 06 Sep 2007 09:28:57 -0700 From: Craig White <craig@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> Subject: Re: kernel panic To: For users of Fedora <fedora-list@xxxxxxxxxx> Message-ID: <1189096137.3399.2.camel@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> Content-Type: text/plain On Thu, 2007-09-06 at 09:46 -0400, Jacques B. wrote: > <snip> > > No! Grub was working fine. Booting to the kernel worked fine. > <snip> > > Ok, there you go again. What's with the "!". > > The title of this thread - "kernel panic" - tells me that it was not > booting to the kernel (stage 2 boot loader). So either grub was wrong > (looking at the wrong drive/partition because the settings were from > the old machine), or the kernel that grub was looking for was missing > (which if that was the case the same would have happened on your old > machine seeing it's a clone of it). You cannot say "Booting to the > kernel worked fine." if you were getting a kernel panic. > > > > > -- > > > > Karl F. Larsen, AKA K5DI > > Linux User > > #450462 http://counter.li.org. > > > > Once again, I give up... I should have learned from the last encounter. ---- he has a style uniquely to himself. you want to help the guy because he's actually trying to understand but he has a habit of biting every hand that reaches out to help him. -- Craig White <craig@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> ------------------------------ Message: 6 Date: Thu, 06 Sep 2007 17:29:31 +0100 From: Andy Green <andy@xxxxxxxxxxx> Subject: Re: figuring out all wireless connections on fedora 6/7 To: For users of Fedora <fedora-list@xxxxxxxxxx> Message-ID: <46E02AEB.6070706@xxxxxxxxxxx> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Somebody in the thread at some point said: >> Well anything that supports a system tray is ok. There are both GNOME >> and KDE frontends. Even Fluxbox has such modules - >> >> http://sourceforge.net/projects/ftmenu/ > > Thanks, Rahul! Do you know about fvwm2? Does it have a frontend similar to > this? It'll be simpler for you to just try it, I think. # service NetworkManager start $ nm-applet & see if you get a little icon somewhere, or a spew of errors. -Andy ------------------------------ Message: 7 Date: Thu, 6 Sep 2007 12:31:00 -0400 From: "McGuffey, David C." <DAVID.C.MCGUFFEY@xxxxxxxx> Subject: RE: fedora-list Digest, Vol 43, Issue 44 To: <fedora-list@xxxxxxxxxx> Message-ID: <41917B18A9DD5F4BAA60624B4453688D64BF89@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > > > Bought a new 320 GB EIDE disk and installed it as MASTER and moved the > > previous MASTER (a 160 GB EIDE disk that booted WinXP) to SLAVE. That > > made the old hd0 hd1 and the new disk hd0. Without any OS installed on > > the new hd0, the machine continued to boot WinXP from hd1. > > Are you sure of this above? No change at all, and swap from master to > slave > of the previous disk? Did you change anything in BIOS options? > > perhaps it would help if inside windows section of grub you have something > like this: > > title Other > rootnoverify (hd1,0) > map (hd1) (hd0) > map (hd0) (hd1) > chainloader +1 > > HIH, > Gianluca > Yes, that is correct...I moved the jumper on both drives to ensure the old MASTER became the SLAVE and the new drive was the new MASTER. Didn't do anything in the BIOS, and it recognized them both. The output of parted shows that F7 got it right (sda has multiple Linux partitions and sdb has two NTFS partitions). I'll try the re-mapping tonight. The dual-boot HowTo documents I read all seemed to indicate the problem associated with Windows wanting to boot from the first drive was associated with Win 9x. I seem to remember in the past getting WinXP to boot from the second or third disk in the sequence. A couple of years back I had a disk failure, and when I ended up installing the new disk, the drive with the bootable WinXP partition was hd1. The machine was later rebuilt and XP ended up on hd0. I could be wrong, but that was my recollection. Dave McGuffey Principal Information System Security Engineer SAIC, IISBU, Columbia, MD I181 TSAT, SETA 410.865.7972 (w) ------------------------------ Message: 8 Date: Thu, 06 Sep 2007 09:34:30 -0700 From: Craig White <craig@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> Subject: Re: kernel panic To: For users of Fedora <fedora-list@xxxxxxxxxx> Message-ID: <1189096470.3399.7.camel@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> Content-Type: text/plain On Thu, 2007-09-06 at 17:18 +0100, Andy Green wrote: > Somebody in the thread at some point said: > > At this point it's for my own trouble shooting knowledge and > > understanding of the boot process that I ask this seeing Karl has > > resolved that portion of his problem. > > Well, yes Karl apparently made the problem go away somehow leaving > nobody the wiser. ---- he booted from installer disk and did an upgrade install - of course after I suggested that he didn't have the skills to repair it himself, to wit... > Short of above...re-install directly on the hardware you are going to > be > using and problems go away. to which came his 'bullshit' comment and then surprise, he runs the installer anyway and it fixes his problem. -- Craig White <craig@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> ------------------------------ Message: 9 Date: Thu, 6 Sep 2007 13:49:54 -0300 From: "Paulo Cavalcanti" <promac@xxxxxxxxx> Subject: Re: kernel panic To: fedora-list@xxxxxxxxxx Message-ID: <68720af30709060949h157f3d98ta27803b6dbb6b398@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > Well it's interesting to hear about that file, which is new to me. But > unless you're proposing that it does mount the correct / filesystem, > reads this file on /etc from that filesystem, and only then errors out, > I don't see how it can explain the symptoms as I understood them. No. What I am saying is that if one changes the label of a partition and alters fstab, it is also necessary to delete blkid.tab, before booting the system. -- Paulo Roma Cavalcanti LCG - UFRJ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: https://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-list/attachments/20070906/3881459a/attachment.html ------------------------------ Message: 10 Date: Thu, 6 Sep 2007 10:46:20 -0600 From: Kevin Kempter <kevin@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> Subject: Re: openVPN To: fedora-list@xxxxxxxxxx Message-ID: <200709061046.20569.kevin@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" On Thursday 06 September 2007 01:36:06 Manuel Arostegui Ramirez wrote: > On Wednesday 05 September 2007 19:56:21 Kevin Kempter wrote: > > Hi List; > > > > I setup an openVPN connection via KDE network manager. However when I try > > and connect I always get a connection error. Can anyone point me toward > > either > > > > a) how to debug this > > > > -or- > > > > b) suggest a good (easy to setup & debug) openVPN client > > > > I'm running KDE on Fedora 7. > > > > Thanks in advance.. > > Umm, I would use the CLI using openvpn manually, you know, > openvpn /path/to/the/client.conf as it will show you all the connection > procces in the console, using that, perhaps, you'd be able to find out > where the problem is, or at least, a big approach to have a start. > > Cheers > Manuel > > -- > Manuel Arostegui Ramirez. > > Electronic Mail is not secure, may not be read every day, and should not > be used for urgent or sensitive issues. Anyone know where the GNOME vpnc configuration applet stores it's vpnc config files? ------------------------------ Message: 11 Date: Fri, 07 Sep 2007 02:23:23 +0930 From: Tim <ignored_mailbox@xxxxxxxxxxxx> Subject: Re: kernel panic To: For users of Fedora <fedora-list@xxxxxxxxxx> Message-ID: <1189097603.7023.4.camel@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> Content-Type: text/plain On Thu, 2007-09-06 at 09:28 -0700, Craig White wrote: > he has a style uniquely to himself Reminds me of someone else I know (not on this list). They offend everybody with their utterly tactless comments, and get offended by just about anything anyone says to them. ;-) They understand little about computers, but will spend ages stuffing it up spectacularly before asking for advice. Often getting extremely drunk before phoning me, making understanding even harder. Eventually giving up trying to resolve it over the phone, and bringing it around for me to get my hands on it. They have a talent for rendering a machine a brick that you plug into a power point. Afterwards, it's quite amusing. But at the time it's quite annoying. -- [tim@bigblack ~]$ uname -ipr 2.6.22.4-65.fc7 i686 i386 Using FC 4, 5, 6 & 7, plus CentOS 5. Today, it's FC7. Don't send private replies to my address, the mailbox is ignored. I read messages from the public lists. ------------------------------ Message: 12 Date: Thu, 06 Sep 2007 11:50:41 -0500 From: "Mikkel L. Ellertson" <mikkel@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> Subject: Re: Dual-booting F7 and WinXP on separate harddisks To: For users of Fedora <fedora-list@xxxxxxxxxx> Message-ID: <46E02FE1.2090102@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" McGuffey, David C. wrote: > > Thanks. > > I read that in several dual-boot HowTo docs...but all were dated > and discussed this problem with Win 9x. In the past I've had WinXP > boot from a partition on the 2nd or 3rd hard disk, so I assumed that > Microsoft fixed this cone-headed problem after Win 9x. > > I'll give it a try tonight. > > Dave McGuffey > It isn't a problem if the disk is in that position when XP is installed, but it is a problem if the disk is moved after XP is installed. I am sure there is a way to tell XP's boot loader about the change, but I have no idea what it is. I just let grub swap the BIOS numbers... Mikkel -- Do not meddle in the affairs of dragons, for thou art crunchy and taste good with Ketchup! -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: OpenPGP digital signature Url : https://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-list/attachments/20070906/125d8e3a/signature.bin ------------------------------ Message: 13 Date: Thu, 06 Sep 2007 17:50:09 +0200 From: Bo Berglund <bo.berglund@xxxxxxxxx> Subject: Re: How to install Thunderbird in linux? To: fedora-list@xxxxxxxxxx Message-ID: <d780e3teoee8dliqi5bfrboh76cfmasqfl@xxxxxxx> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii On Thu, 06 Sep 2007 08:57:49 +0100, Andy Green <andy@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote: >Somebody in the thread at some point said: > >>> Because you are new to Linux, I would advise you to use yum to do >>> the install, or the Install New Software menu item, and select it >>>from the list. If you install things without using yum/rpm, you can >>> run into problems when you go to install other software because the >>> system will not know the packages are installed, and will tell you >>> you need to install them if other packages require them. >> >> I'll go the yum way then. > >Another reason that's a good idea is security updates. If you download >and install private "off piste" binaries, it's down to you to track when >security issues are found with them and go off and update them. Whereas >a periodic "yum update" will pull in security (and other) updates >automatically. > >Thunderbird, like Firefox, is a high profile target for security issues >because a lot of the codebase is shared with the Windows versions, which >are pretty popular. One of the biggest benefits of specifically Fedora >is that Redhat are very hot on getting security updates out quickly. > >-Andy I used yum install thunderbird and now I have a menu entry to start Thunderbird. :-) I noted that on the top of the screen there are a few small icons to the right of te last menu item, these seem to launch certain applications which one wants quick access to. But the email program is not Thunderbird, it is another one entirely. How can I replace that speedicon with Thunderbird? Bo Berglund ------------------------------ Message: 14 Date: Fri, 07 Sep 2007 02:38:11 +0930 From: Tim <ignored_mailbox@xxxxxxxxxxxx> Subject: Re: kernel panic To: For users of Fedora <fedora-list@xxxxxxxxxx> Message-ID: <1189098491.7023.7.camel@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> Content-Type: text/plain On Thu, 2007-09-06 at 13:49 -0300, Paulo Cavalcanti wrote: > What I am saying is that if one changes the label of a partition > and alters fstab, it is also necessary to delete blkid.tab, before > booting the system. I haven't noticed a need to do that, and I've made many label changes. -- [tim@bigblack ~]$ uname -ipr 2.6.22.4-65.fc7 i686 i386 Using FC 4, 5, 6 & 7, plus CentOS 5. Today, it's FC7. Don't send private replies to my address, the mailbox is ignored. I read messages from the public lists. ------------------------------ Message: 15 Date: Thu, 06 Sep 2007 12:22:27 -0500 From: "Mikkel L. Ellertson" <mikkel@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> Subject: Re: How to install Thunderbird in linux? To: For users of Fedora <fedora-list@xxxxxxxxxx> Message-ID: <46E03753.4090507@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Bo Berglund wrote: > > I used yum install thunderbird and now I have a menu entry to start > Thunderbird. :-) > > I noted that on the top of the screen there are a few small icons to > the right of te last menu item, these seem to launch certain > applications which one wants quick access to. > But the email program is not Thunderbird, it is another one entirely. > > How can I replace that speedicon with Thunderbird? > > Bo Berglund > System --> Preferences --> More Preferences --> Preferred Applications --> Mail Reader (System menu, Pick Preferences, etc...) Mikkel -- Do not meddle in the affairs of dragons, for thou art crunchy and taste good with Ketchup! -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: OpenPGP digital signature Url : https://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-list/attachments/20070906/7e0c1e80/signature.bin ------------------------------ Message: 16 Date: Thu, 06 Sep 2007 18:43:46 +0100 From: Andy Green <andy@xxxxxxxxxxx> Subject: Re: kernel panic To: For users of Fedora <fedora-list@xxxxxxxxxx> Message-ID: <46E03C52.3020901@xxxxxxxxxxx> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Somebody in the thread at some point said: > On Thu, 2007-09-06 at 13:49 -0300, Paulo Cavalcanti wrote: >> What I am saying is that if one changes the label of a partition >> and alters fstab, it is also necessary to delete blkid.tab, before >> booting the system. > > I haven't noticed a need to do that, and I've made many label changes. Yes it still can't be right as described. /etc/fstab is not available during initrd-time either, no filesystems are except the one from the initrd. Stuff only gets mounted according to /etc/fstab during the initscripts. In short before it mounts / (containing /etc/fstab and /etc/blkid/blkid.tab) it can't even discover that we didn't follow this rule, therefore it can't interfere with mounting /. But I'm sure you are right it can mess other things up if you don't take care to follow whatever it is important for (maybe tracking USB sticks or somesuch, fom looking at mine?). -Andy ------------------------------ Message: 17 Date: Thu, 6 Sep 2007 13:48:01 -0400 From: Todd Zullinger <tmz@xxxxxxxxx> Subject: Re: SV: SV: Install mailman To: fedora-list@xxxxxxxxxx Message-ID: <20070906174801.GC22506@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" mattias wrote: > Ok how to add the aliases for my lists?? You could give me root on your box (and a nice hourly rate) and I'll add them... ... or you could read the fine mailman installation manual, specifically the section on postfix integration. > http://list.org/mailman-install/index.html [...] > http://list.org/mailman-install/node12.html Then, if you have specific questions that are not clear from your reading of the manual, please ask them. I am quite happy to help someone learn to fish, but I'm not so eager to fish for you. :-) -- Todd OpenPGP -> KeyID: 0xBEAF0CE3 | URL: www.pobox.com/~tmz/pgp ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Never offend people with style when you can offend them with substance. -- Sam Brown -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... 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