Tim: >> On a well secured system, a student can only change their own settings. >> They can stuff themselves up, but nobody else. Antonio Olivares: > Not that simple, these students are SHARP. They can bypass passwords, > firewalls. They have very good skills in computers. They can crack > passwords. Some of these kids can edit the registry and logout the > administrators, and the administrators have no way of getting into the > machine without reformatting it. Yes LiveCDs can crack the passwords, > but the drivers on these Dell Machines do not allow the driver to be > loaded, hence, the nt_pass crackers fail here. Seriously, this is bad administration. Even Windows can be locked up. Allowing a machine to be booted off anything other than the admin approved media is an administration error. Thinking that needs to be possible is an administration error. That's the first mistake that needs to be rectified, before even attempting anything else. If you can boot up outside of a controlled environment, you can do anything that you want to. If you cannot, you're restricted to what you're allowed to do by the admin. If the admin disallowed such trickery, they can't do it. I agree with Frank's assessment about them being unwilling to tackle the problem effectively. You do need competent admins, you do need to make decisions that upset some people. They're reaping the rewards of not doing this with the current problems. You'll never overcome the problems until you tackle them directly. I don't say that as an outsider, I spent somewhere over a decade working in schools, I can't imagine myself wanting to again. I am aware of the prevelent school attitudes and the student problems, that's why I turn my back on it. >>> One problem here is that the curriculum is based on M$ >>> Word/Excel/PowerPoint, etc. >> That is a two-fold problem: >> >> Teaching word processing, spread sheeting, etc., is different than >> teaching how to use Word, Excel, etc. One is learning the technique of >> what word processing and spreadsheeting is, the other is simply learning >> how to use particular software. Quite often schools omit actual >> learning, and just use indoctrination. > I agree here with you Tim, but my friend will get into trouble if he > does not follow the curriculum. People have grown up with Word -> > Word Processor, Excel -> Spreadsheet and PowerPoint for > presentations. I've always considered "curriculum" to be the learning of skills and techniques (reading, writing, mathematics, music, art, etc). The particular tools used to do the job is yet another matter. To put it another way. If you do technical studies, woodwork, metalwork, etc. You learn with hand tools, and apply the knowledge to using the power tools, later. You learn how to use *a* lathe or bandsaw, to do what you need to do to the raw materials. Learning how to use but only one model of the machine, doesn't do you a great deal of good. It's well worth pushing that notion through along with the rest of the "let's try Linux" angle. And I'll say it's a fair bet that your students are learning to use just one release of Word or Excel. If you can get some PCs installed with an alternative OS, and trial them. You're providing a better learning environment (learning two things is *more* education), and you might find it *demonstrates* a superior reliability. Many years ago I set up a pile of Amiga computers in a local high school, they lasted many *years* with zero stuffing up of the software. They were replaced when the hardware physically wore out, and when they became seriously outdated technology. The *ONLY* maintainance required was to peridically delete old data files to make space on the hard drives. I was given the remaining working bits and pieces back just at the beginning of this year. I had a look through the drives, and they're still set up as I configured them, and working! ;-) Now I'm looking for a new home for them, because they're still not junk, if you happen to want to do the sorts of things that they could do. I give that example as a way of saying that it *is* possible to set up a computer system that students cannot knobble. And it's easier when you have an OS that gives them less avenues of attack. In those Amiga's cases, I simply mounted the system and application drive partitions in a read-only mode. It's still a valid technique for *ix systems, and quite effective. And it's much better to lock out meddling, in the first place, than play the wipe and replace game. Apart from it being an annoying waste of time and effort, it often gets put off for quite some time, and everybody suffers with what the hobbled PC does to them and the network. > Have to find another way LTSP is a good idea, but will not go through > with Administration. These computers are licensed for use with > Windows. The programs like Deep Freeze are expen$ive and are out the > door. Licensing generally means you're allowed to use that software, not that you're forced to. Unless you're leasing supported hardware and software combinations. If the school has sold their soul to the devil, and are *actually* *unable* to use anything else, hmm, well. -- [tim@bigblack ~]$ uname -ipr 2.6.22.1-41.fc7 i686 i386 Using FC 4, 5, 6 & 7, plus CentOS 5. Today, it's FC7. Don't send private replies to my address, the mailbox is ignored. I read messages from the public lists.
