Hi > Shades of Big Brother that we have been trying to avoid in the OS movement > I thought. There are alternatives to SEL if you want security. and selinux has nothing to do with monitoring or controlling stuff arbitrarily without your control.So your "big brother" stuff is just false. Even if you dont want PAM in fedora you still have the pam libraries linked to all the relevant utilities. since neither pam nor selinux libraries occupy space you can just disable selinux and not bother about it. I dont see a problem here regards Rahul Sundaram