On Tuesday 22 June 2004 07:35, Robert P. J. Day wrote: > On Tue, 22 Jun 2004, Dexter Ang wrote: > > HaJo Schatz wrote: > >> Hi List, > >> > >> Long story, short question: Should I fall back to FC1 instead of using > >> FC2? I am somewhat very concerned about the release quality of FC2. > >> Here's what happened: > > > > It is all your choice. No one is forcing you to use FC2. > > to those folks who habitually respond to critisicm of FC 1/2 with this > annoying, circle-the-wagons, defensive mentality, a piece of advice: grow > up. > > when someone takes the time to document a number of legitimate concerns > and obvious flaws in an *official* release (after three, count 'em, > *three* test releases), and also legitimately asks whether he should be > concerned about its quality, he deserves a better and more mature answer > than "No one is forcing you to use FC2." > > it's become really tedious to watch the growing trend of promoting > fedora core, talking about making it just a terrific distro, how it has a > dynamic user community behind it ... yadda yadda yadda ... but whenever > someone posts perfectly reasonable criticism of some aspect, there's a > sudden surge of, "hey, if you don't like it, don't use it, ok?" i suspect > it's not the quality of FC2 that might drive people off, it's the > closed-minded and dismissive attitude of its alleged supporters. > > >> - Service PCMCIA doesn't load the yento-sockets module. This is known @ > >> bugzilla, one has to patch the pcmcia script by hand. Through this bug, > >> the PCMCIA subsystem is non-functional! > > > > This seems to be system specific. My IBM Thinkpad T30's PCMCIA works > > without any problems. > > well, good for you. and the fact that it works for you means ... what? > that it doesn't qualify as a real problem? fact is, the > /etc/init.d/pcmcia file has historically been a bit of a mess -- heck, i > recall submitting a bug report on that file as far back as april of 2003: > > https://bugzilla.redhat.com/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=88054 > > it's depressing that it's still broken, and in such a blatant way. > > >> - My console-beep (emitted through the sound card) disappeared ever > >> since FC2. I don't seem to be able to find a pointer on how to trace > >> this... > > > > You must load the pcspkr module. It's been discussed and is in the > > archives. > > which doesn't dismiss the original poster's contention that it's still a > mildly-annoying bug, and one which didn't exist in FC1. i don't think > it's unreasonable for folks to gripe when things which once worked in FC1 > suddenly stopped working in FC2. > > >> This is the result after a few hours of FC2 experience and I really > >> start wondering about what level of testing this release experienced > >> before being released into the public -- even IMHO obvious things like > >> the PCMCIA subsystem doesn't work! Seems to me that FC1 was by far the > >> more reliable system. > > > > Realibility will depend on the number of people testing "test" releases. > > If you want a quality release, you should help out by testing and > > reporting bugs. > > oh, man, you *so* did not want to go there. working from memory here so i > hope i'm remembering correctly, i'm pretty sure there have been at least a > couple folks who pointed out that they *did* put in time running the test > releases, that they *did* identify and report obvious bugs way back when > and yet, when FC2 hit the streets, those bugs were still there. > > under the circumstances, then, it's pretty offensive to get testy with > folks about how they should get involved in the testing process when many > of them have done exactly that, only to see their efforts at bug > identification and reporting make no difference in the final release. one > might conclude that, under those circumstances, they really do have the > right to wonder if it was worth the time and effort. > > > If you can't afford to use your machine for testing, your best hope is > > to report bugs and wait for fixes. > > see above. > > > Again, no one's forcing you to use FC2. > > and again, this is a really childish response. one has to wonder, just > what do you do for a living? i can just imagine, say, a car salesman with > this kind of "don't you dare criticize me and my product" attitude: > > Salesman: "Yes, sir, Mr. Smith, this van has the horsepower you need for > pulling your boat, loads of cargo space and foldout seats for the kids, > optional 6-way sound system since you like music." > > Mr. Smith: "Yup, it's almost perfect, but I'm not sure if my current roof > rack is compatible with the roof mounts ..." > > Salesman: "HEY! No one's *forcing* you to buy this thing, OK? You got a > problem with it?! There's lots of other dealers out there, all right?!" > > > Obviously you have the time to format and install an entirely new system > > without assessing the possible issues first, so why not try SuSE? > > hey, good idea, dude. there's nothing that placates an unsatisfied user > more than suggesting they take their talents elsewhere. *that'll* help > the cause, fer shure. > > > Giving up on FC2 is really your decision. Either help out, by living > > through bugs and reporting them, or just switch to something that works. > > once again, see above. ("... or just switch to something that works." > now *there's* some great testimonial.) > > > I am hoping that through my and others' efforts, FC3 will be a superb > > release. > > and if it isn't, well, those whiners can take their complaints elsewhere, > can't they? > > rday Excellent post! I also have been noticing the elitist, unhelpful and downright rude replies to people who have legitament questions. I just hope that people in general will lighten up and remember that manners certainly go a long way especially in perception of a forum such as this. Phil Savoie
