Hello everybody, Boy, you guys should be charging me by the hour for this he he he. Ben, I looked at services and I got the message of"gpm dead but pid file exsist" on shutdown I notice that "mouse console services failed in shutdown" However when I restarted gpm it started sucessfully. any connection? my only option I think is to see why console mouse services has failed and go from there. thanks again for all your help but suggestions at this point are welcomed. Mbutterman __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Search - Find what you?re looking for faster http://search.yahoo.com