Bryan Ischo wrote: > Hi all. I'd like to ask if anyone has any comments on bugzilla bug > 140214. This bug is in regards to the removal in Fedora Core of the X > utility programs xbiff, xmessage, and xcalc. Are there Fedora Core > developers on this list who can comment? Not a core developer, but I lurk on the developer list. > The gist of the problem is that one developer, Mike A. Harris, has decided > to remove these programs from the xorg-x11 RPM. He has never given any > reason for doing so and it can only be surmised that be believes that > these programs are superfluous, presumably because he doesn't use them. > > The number of users of these programs is probably not terribly large, but > then again, the size of these programs and the difficulty in maintaining > them is incredibly small (they have been a part of the base X system for > about 20 years now and as far as I know there has not been a bug or > maintaince issue with these programs in 20 years!). Right. There are a couple of ongoing discussions, and you probably aren't aware of them. One discussion has crystallised into the idea that, actually, Fedora Core shouldn't include everything (which is why we have Extras). Linux distributions take a pretty expansive definition of an "operating system" (practically nothing else includes office suites, for example), but there is still going to be stuff that Fedora doesn't try to do. Within that, there is the feeling that Fedora should try to identify and include *one* best-of-class program to do any particular job. In practice, of course, one program will be better at some things, while another will include a feature some people find necessary. So there are and will continue to be a few "duplicates". And, for political reasons, there will continue to be both Gnome and KDE, often with the "right application for the desktop". But that doesn't justify including duplicates if they *don't* bring something new to Fedora. It's a balancing act. That program should be set up, ready to use (within such constraints as security). As far as possible, the distribution should Just Work. Someone not used to the programs available should be able to say "I want to do X", quickly spot the right program, and start work. Having multiple alternatives available confuses the user: which should he or she use? "Try both" implies that the user needs to invest time to choose, which is not user-friendly. The other is that, at the rate we're going, FC4 *needs* to be trimmed by 300 MB or it woun't even fit on four CDs. This is considered a Bad Thing: apparently there are a number of distributors (magazines, etc) who mass-distribute Fedora CDs who would find another CD difficult to justify. And Fedora makes enough demands on the mirrors as it is. There aren't actually that many large packages in Fedora. There aren't any obvious large packages left to remove: removing KDE support *would* do it, but the idea ... isn't popular. All this *has* been discussed in public -- on the fedora-devel list. I'd submit that you would be unlikely to be able to change people's minds at this point. Against this background, the removal of those programs you mention does make sense. James. -- James Wilkinson | "We've just been contacted by the Lady of the Lake." Exeter Devon UK | "Really? What does she want?" E-mail address: james | "A really big towel." @westexe.demon.co.uk | -- http://www.mopsy.com/d/19981122.html
