On Thu, Apr 1, 2010 at 5:54 PM, Sam Sharpe <lists.redhat@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
So! No more 'The "Stable" offering is Red Hat Enterprise Linux.' ?
What? OK, RHEL might finally prove more solid than Fedora, but final is stable. Only security patches and important bug fixes should be uploaded. No program updates. I'm glad to learn we agreed all along!
Which means that, for instance, developers should think twice before quitting the KDE 3.5.x branch and going for 4.0. Since testing means "going soon to the final, stable release", KDE 4 remains in rawhide, even though it evolves to new dot versions, until it's deemed stable enough for the next final release. That's the way Patrick Volkerding does it for Slackware.
For non-developers using Final , "release early. release often" is "released too early, released too often."
Of course, nothing prevents Red Hat's own geeks, or anybody feeling adventurous, from enabling the Rawhide repository.
So, everybody is kept happy.
On 1 April 2010 22:23, Marcel Rieux <m.z.rieux@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:Actually I read it before, although I have no idea whether it was due
> On Thu, Apr 1, 2010 at 5:06 PM, Chris Adams <cmadams@xxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>
>> Once upon a time, Sam Sharpe <lists.redhat@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> said:
>> > You keep saying this. I shall make only two points as I am bored of
>> > saying this time and time again.
>>
>> I would welcome you stopping saying this, since you present two extremes
>> as the only possible choices (which they are not).
>
> Though I've been providing this link time and again, Mr Sharpe has chosen to
> ignore it:
>
> https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Stable_release_updates_vision
to a post by you - I believe it to be largely a statement of the
current status-quo. Perhaps you read it differently to me.
* The update repositories for stable releases of the Fedora
distribution should provide our users with a consistent and high
quality stream of updates.
I haven't seen huge issues with updates for releases. I realise
other people might have, but that doesn't indicate an endemic problem
of brokenness in Fedora, nor that the aims have changed.
* Stable releases should provide a consistent user experience
throughout the lifecycle, and only fix bugs and security issues.
Again, I haven't personally seen evidence that Updates to a Fedora
release have massively changed the User Experience - but then I'm not
a KDE user.
* Stable releases should not be used for tracking upstream version
closely when this is likely to change the user experience beyond
fixing bugs and security issues.
This is currently true - they do not.
* Close tracking of upstream should be done in the Rawhide repo
wherever possible, and we should strive to move our patches upstream.
This is the current situation
* More skilled and/or intrepid users are encouraged to use Rawhide
along with participating in testing of stable branches during the
development and pre-release period.
This is the current situation
* Stable releases, pre-release branches, and Rawhide have a graduated
approach to what types of updates are expected. For example, a
pre-release branch should accept some updates which a stable release
would not, and rawhide would accept updates that are not appropriate
for either a stable release or a pre-release.
This is the current situation. e.g. major software versions can
change between F12 Alpha and Beta releases.
* Project members should be able to transparently measure or monitor a
new updates process to objectively measure its effectiveness, and
determine whether the updates process is achieving the aforementioned
vision statements.
Not something I can comment on.
As I understand it, in the above terminology:
Rawhide == Rawhide
Pre-release == Fxx Alpha, Fxx, Beta, Fxx RC
Stable == Fxx
So! No more 'The "Stable" offering is Red Hat Enterprise Linux.' ?
What? OK, RHEL might finally prove more solid than Fedora, but final is stable. Only security patches and important bug fixes should be uploaded. No program updates. I'm glad to learn we agreed all along!
Which means that, for instance, developers should think twice before quitting the KDE 3.5.x branch and going for 4.0. Since testing means "going soon to the final, stable release", KDE 4 remains in rawhide, even though it evolves to new dot versions, until it's deemed stable enough for the next final release. That's the way Patrick Volkerding does it for Slackware.
For non-developers using Final , "release early. release often" is "released too early, released too often."
Of course, nothing prevents Red Hat's own geeks, or anybody feeling adventurous, from enabling the Rawhide repository.
So, everybody is kept happy.
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