On Saturday 13 March 2010 03:47:52 pm Craig White wrote: > On Sat, 2010-03-13 at 15:26 -0800, Russell Miller wrote: > > We are *not* irrelevant. I'm not, and neither is the OP, and the > > attitude > > that says we are is the *problem*. > > ---- > #1 - mentioning Red Hat or the NYSE on a Fedora list is irrelevant. > That's true. But I don't recall you using the pronoun "You" to refer to Red Hat or the NYSE. But I guess that's not really relevant either. > Relevance is lending a hand to make things better. Bug reporting, > submitting better documentation, helping others solve problems. I'm > sorry that you had problems submitting bug reports but I can see that a > typical user will have difficulty identifying which software is the > problem and how to make a bug report but try reporting a bug to Apple or > Microsoft or any other software company and tell me how well you make > out. The fact is that open source software actually permits the users > entry/access to the process and problem resolution paths but cannot > ensure that the user actually understands his role. > I am not a typical user. I have been a sysadmin for 12 years. I have a general idea of how a good bug reporting and triaging system should work. When I submitted a bug that I knew beyond a shadow of a doubt was a bug and got told it wasn't, I wasn't very happy. When I made my case that, yes, it is a bug, and got told that my report wasn't valid because I put it in the wrong place, I wasn't very happy either. I understand that it's run by volunteers but at some point even volunteers should be able to move a bug from one package to another, it takes the same amount of time as closing it. > There are people who light candles and people who curse the darkness. > Yes, and there are people who light candles and have them blown out repeatedly. After a certain amount of time, the candles stop getting lit. > Marcel is like a broken record - rehashing the same things he groused > about last week as if yet another 2000 words on the same topics is going > to be any less of a waste of electrons this week. But I didn't say that > he was irrelevant or that everything he said was irrelevant. His rants > are irrelevant. > I see, I somehow stuck myself in the middle of a flame war. Fair enough. I follow the list in a middling manner and only read things that pop out at me. > Yes, Fedora is imperfect... it's also an imperfect world. If he or > anyone else needs help with a specific issue, they are almost always > handled expeditiously. But if he or someone else wants to draw big > picture issues, they should at least understand something about open > source development, software packaging, the origins, the process, etc. > Otherwise, they are irrelevant. > Never in my case. Make of it what you will. But the person who said "if you're so unsatisfied with fedora find another one you like" may have a point after all. I'm not unsatisfied with Fedora, but who knows, maybe ubuntu, etc., has a better community. Shrug. It's a futile conversation anyway. My lone voice isn't going to change anything. --Russell > Craig -- users mailing list users@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines
