Mikkel L. Ellertson wrote:
Bill Davidsen wrote:
I think "Pulse Audio Guru" is a symptom of the problem as users see it.
We don't *want* to be gurus, or more to the point don't want to *need*
to be a guru to use sound. End users should *not* have to load one or
two non-default "advanced mixers" just to turn up the volume of their
speakers high enough to hear. They should not be fiddling with the
pulse/alsa/advanced controls trying to find some combination which works
for input. Inserting modules with options should not be the way you
select audio options.
Speak for yourself, not for other people. I think I qualify as a
"user", and I manage to use Pulse Audio. I kind of dought I am the
only one using it. I have run into a problem once or twice, but I
EXPECT to run into problems with Fedora once in a while. If I didn't
want to deal with them, I would switch to a more stable distribution.
Under RH8 users could use audacity or the 'rec' part of sox to take
sound from mic or line input, set the sample rates, and write a wav
file. Under F11 I have yet (four systems) to find any one which will do
that, with any mix of interacting controls, with any application
including the "sound recorder" installed by default.
Clearly in the rush to add fancy features for audiophiles the usability
of sound has been devalued. Google for "sound problems + fedora" and
the volume of results for recent versions should convince you that there
is a usability problem. Sound should "just work" for the typical user,
and the people who want to do complex things should be using not complex
controls, not people who just want to hear sound.
Where do you think things like this should be experimented with? I
thought Fedora was all about trying new things. Things that worked
fine for the people running rawhide tend to break on some systems.
The only way to find out is for a larger group to try it.
When you are talking about "the typical user", are you talking about
the typical computer user, the typical Linux user, or the typical
Fedora user? Somehow, I don't think the typical Fedora user would be
a typical user in the other two groups. ;-)
The user who wants to use the system without getting into source code. In my
case the user who has now tried FC11 on four systems which will record sound
and run sound apps using FC6, FC9, and/or FC10. And asking in various places
gets told "it's your hardware, not Fedora compliant" or "it works for me"
but never a hint why it stopped working, stopped being compliant, or why
someone who can make other distros work can find no way to get any line or
mic input connected to any recording or playing application.
The obvious explanation is that something is broken in FC11 which causes
failure on many types of hardware (not all).
With Fedora's short release and support cycle, I can not picture
recommending it to someone that does not like to "tinker". Then
again, I could not see myself running something like Mandriva on
this machine...
There is nothing to tinker *with*, if it doesn't work the alternative is do
without sound input or use something else for a distro, since the real
problem is that people pretend there is no problem, documentation is not
needed, etc.
In previous releases I was able to select modes, mono, 2-ch, 4-ch, or 5.1,
and on some system 7.1 and "surround" as well. None of the tools seem to
offer those choices any more, and I can believe that the issue is that all
the inputs have been made outputs by forcing 5.1 or 7.1. I just don't have
any way to change that other than reinstalling an old release.
