Re: fedora-list Digest, Vol 44, Issue 273

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Today's Topics:

1. Srange OOwrite behavior. (Aaron Konstam)
2. Re: nvidia (Karl Larsen)
3. Re: BIOS upgrading (Mikkel L. Ellertson)
4. Re: Srange OOwrite behavior. (Frank Cox)
5. Re: nvidia (Timothy Murphy)
6. Re: Flat Monitors (Mike Chambers)
7. Re: nvidia (Mikkel L. Ellertson)
8. Re: Flat Monitors (Frank Cox)
9. Re: nvidia (Timothy Murphy)
10. Re: BIOS upgrading (Mikkel L. Ellertson)
11. Re: nvidia (Les Mikesell)
12. Re: nvidia (Les Mikesell)
13. The KDE-SIG needs (your) help (Sebastian Vahl)
14. Re: nvidia (Les Mikesell)
15. Re: nvidia (Matthew Saltzman)


----------------------------------------------------------------------

Message: 1
Date: Mon, 29 Oct 2007 16:23:42 -0600
From: Aaron Konstam
Subject: Srange OOwrite behavior.
To: Fedora-list
Message-ID: <1193696622.3017.5.camel@cyrus>
Content-Type: text/plain

I have Open Office 2.2.1 installed and I can't get OOwrite to print a
document in in Landscape orientation. If others have the same experience
then I will file a bugzilla. Let me know.
--
=======================================================================
LOGO for the Dead LOGO for the Dead lets you continue your computing
activities from "The Other Side." The package includes a unique
telecommunications feature which lets you turn your TRS-80 into an
electronic Ouija board. Then, using Logo's graphics capabilities, you
can work with a friend or relative on this side of the Great Beyond to
write programs. The software requires that your body be hardwired to an
analog-to-digital converter, which is then interfaced to your computer.
A special terminal (very terminal) program lets you talk with the users
through Deadnet, an EBBS (Ectoplasmic Bulletin Board System). LOGO for
the Dead is available for 10 percent of your estate from NecroSoft inc.,
6502 Charnelhouse Blvd., Cleveland, OH 44101. -- '80 Microcomputing
=======================================================================
Aaron Konstam telephone: (210) 656-0355 e-mail: akonstam@xxxxxxxxxxxxx



------------------------------

Message: 2
Date: Mon, 29 Oct 2007 15:31:48 -0600
From: Karl Larsen
Subject: Re: nvidia
To: For users of Fedora
Message-ID: <47265144.2090106@xxxxxxxxxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed

There is on the Nvidia (put in Google) site a newest version of of
there drivers for Linux. You have to d/l a "run" file which you select
from the first questions on the page. Then I discovered it will not run
if the X server is running.

Just found out to turn off the X server in a root Terminal type init
3. There you go to the directory with the run file and as root type sh
NVID..... and it will start. On my computer it could not find a ready
made kernel addition so it made on on the spot and then went on to do
other things.

Then I typed init 5 and here I am back on X windows with MUCH
sharper pictures and things and the pointer is new.

This is how you should get your Nvidia on Linux if you want the best
qualities of Nvidia color.


--

Karl F. Larsen, AKA K5DI
Linux User
#450462 http://counter.li.org.



------------------------------

Message: 3
Date: Mon, 29 Oct 2007 16:30:13 -0500
From: "Mikkel L. Ellertson"
Subject: Re: BIOS upgrading
To: For users of Fedora
Message-ID: <472650E5.5060703@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"

John Summerfield wrote:
> Michael Wiktowy wrote:
>>
>> It doesn't work with an ISO image either. I believe that there are
>> loopback mounting that are part of GRUB2 that will do this directly.
>> http://www.mgerards.net/blog/?p=16
>>
>> /Mike
>>
>
> I don't think I understand what you're saying, and if I do, then I most
> certainly disagree.
>
> I _have_ made a bootable CD with grub (and my own picture, of a Jersey
> heifer I took at the Royal Show a while back).
>
> This reads the CD:
> /usr/share/grub/i386-redhat/iso9660_stage1_5
>
What we were talking about was an .iso image stored on the hard
drive, not burned to a CD.

Mikkel
--

Do not meddle in the affairs of dragons,
for thou art crunchy and taste good with Ketchup!

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Message: 4
Date: Mon, 29 Oct 2007 15:32:00 -0600
From: Frank Cox
Subject: Re: Srange OOwrite behavior.
To: For users of Fedora
Message-ID: <20071029153200.f62d6c0a.theatre@xxxxxxxxxxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII

On Mon, 29 Oct 2007 16:23:42 -0600
Aaron Konstam wrote:

> I have Open Office 2.2.1 installed and I can't get OOwrite to print a
> document in in Landscape orientation. If others have the same experience
> then I will file a bugzilla. Let me know.

It worked fine for me when I used it. I have OO 2.3 installed now and it's
still working fine as far as I know.

Install CUPS-PDF and print to that. If it works, you will know more than you
do right now. If it doesn't work, ditto...

--
MELVILLE THEATRE ~ Melville Sask ~ http://www.melvilletheatre.com



------------------------------

Message: 5
Date: Mon, 29 Oct 2007 21:38:47 +0000
From: Timothy Murphy
Subject: Re: nvidia
To: fedora-list@xxxxxxxxxx
Message-ID:
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

Les Mikesell wrote:

>> In my (limited) experience closed drivers create serious problems,
>> as you never know if they will work with newer kernels
>> or other software, so you cannot rely on them too much.
>
> In my experience, open source drivers have as many or more problems than
> the closed source versions.

Well, virtually all the open source drivers I use are maintained by someone
who updates them for new versions of Linux and/or Fedora.
By contrast, the few closed source drivers I have used
usually state something like "Compatible with Linux 2.2.10"
and when they don't work with Linux 2.6.10
there is nothing you can do about it.
(I came across this recently with a driver from Avaya
for an Orinoco WiFi card.)

> _If_ you are Alan Cox or some number of
> hackers with equivalently specialized skills that you could probably
> count on one hand, having the source code available might be of some
> value when the supplied binary doesn't work. The rest of us report the
> bug and wait, and again in my experience over the last couple of
> decades, the closed source providers are at least equally responsive in
> this scenario.

Really?
When did you last get a positive response from a closed source provider?




------------------------------

Message: 6
Date: Mon, 29 Oct 2007 16:38:51 -0500
From: Mike Chambers
Subject: Re: Flat Monitors
To: For users of Fedora
Message-ID: <1193693931.2466.3.camel@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Content-Type: text/plain

On Mon, 2007-10-29 at 14:10 -0600, Robin Laing wrote:
> You said everything I was, but missed that contrast is another issue
> with LCD over CRT. The specifications for contrast are misleading.
> There are two contrast ratings. One for static and one for dynamic.
> If
> you are doing graphics work, you need a good static contrast or you
> can
> miss details.
>
> Another thing is if the monitor is going to be used for gaming, then
> you
> will have to look at the refresh rates. If they are to slow, the
> monitor will look like a blur with any games. Also you have to know
> if
> the video card can work at the native resolution of the monitor.
>
> I got rid of my LCD for a CRT monitor at work and home. I am waiting
> for OLED or SED monitors.

Well, this is just for home and no graphics work involved, as in for
emails, browsing, script type editing a little, that type stuff. So
would think it should be OK.

One I am looking at is Proview 19" Widescreen at Walmart.

--
Mike Chambers
Madisonville, KY

"Best lil town on Earth!"



------------------------------

Message: 7
Date: Mon, 29 Oct 2007 16:44:15 -0500
From: "Mikkel L. Ellertson"
Subject: Re: nvidia
To: fedora-list@xxxxxxxxxx
Message-ID: <4726542F.10808@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"

Frank Cox wrote:
> On Mon, 29 Oct 2007 15:19:59 -0500
> "Mikkel L. Ellertson" wrote:
>
>> The C128 was interesting in that it had 2 processors. It would
>> switch to the Z80 processor when running in the CP/M mode. It also
>> ran CP/M 3 or CP/M Plus (Different names for the same thing.) so you
>> could use more then 64K of RAM using memory paging.
>
> It's my understanding that the CP/M mode of the C128 was very under-utilized
> and under-appreciated.
>
> I had a rather good accounting program that just happened to be a full-fledged
> database program as well. I thought it was called "TAS: The Accounting
> Solution", but I just looked that up and there still is a "TAS: The Accounting
> Solution" and all they mentioned there was DOS so it might have been something
> else. It was definitely CP/M; I remember that it came on Kaypro formatted
> disks and the Commodore 1571 drive read them with no problem. I also learned
> dBase II on the C128 in CP/M mode.
>
> I had a fairly decent little collection of CP/M software for my C128, at one
> time....
>
I had only limited experience with the 128 - A friend had one. I was
on my third CP/M machine myself - this one had a 20M hard drive, as
well as both standard and double-density 5-1/4" drives. We found
that IBM-PC format made the best exchange format between us.

I still have a fair collection of software for CP/M - including Word
Star word processor, Personal Perl database, Both standard and macro
assemblers, a C compiler, modem programs, etc. I wish I could
legally add them to one of the CP/M software sites.

I used to write a lot of serial port and modem overlay files for the
modem program. (MEX?) Some were simple changes to add the carrier
detect bit, while others were full overlays for new hardware based
on the default template. I don't know if they are still floating
around. There should also be a Battle Ship type game and a Number
Squares game written in C out there someplace. (Text based.)

Mikkel
--

Do not meddle in the affairs of dragons,
for thou art crunchy and taste good with Ketchup!

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Message: 8
Date: Mon, 29 Oct 2007 15:46:05 -0600
From: Frank Cox
Subject: Re: Flat Monitors
To: For users of Fedora
Message-ID: <20071029154605.cf450b11.theatre@xxxxxxxxxxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII

On Mon, 29 Oct 2007 16:38:51 -0500
Mike Chambers wrote:

> One I am looking at is Proview 19" Widescreen at Walmart.

I have 12", 17" and 22" monitors. All are various models of Acer LCD's and, as
you can see, some of them are getting a bit older now.

None of them have ever given me any problems at all.

--
MELVILLE THEATRE ~ Melville Sask ~ http://www.melvilletheatre.com



------------------------------

Message: 9
Date: Mon, 29 Oct 2007 21:46:30 +0000
From: Timothy Murphy
Subject: Re: nvidia
To: fedora-list@xxxxxxxxxx
Message-ID:
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

Les Mikesell wrote:

> The difference is
> that closed source OS's rarely change their driver interfaces, so it
> would be extremely unusual for something that already works and I have
> put into production to suddenly fail due to an update.

I find this an astonishing assertion.
Surely the Linux kernel interface changes reasonably often?

> In fedora, this
> has been a regular occurrence.

Such as?






------------------------------

Message: 10
Date: Mon, 29 Oct 2007 16:48:34 -0500
From: "Mikkel L. Ellertson"
Subject: Re: BIOS upgrading
To: For users of Fedora
Message-ID: <47265532.50006@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"

John Summerfield wrote:
>
> I've long assumed, but not tried it, that one can put a standard boot
> sector (LILO, MSDOS or Grub) on a USB disk with every prospect of
> success and good fortune.
>
> I can't see why one would need to be different from, say, a laptop drive
> in a USB enclosure, and I've seen a mate boot linux from one of those.
>
Both USB memory drives, and USB hard drives work fine as long as
your BIOS support them. If you use Grub or LILO for your boot
loader, you have to remember that the USB drive will be BIOS drive
80, or Grub device hd0, when you boot on most systems. If you format
a USB drive like a floppy, instead of a hard drive, this may not be
the case - it may be treated as a USB floppy drive.

Mikkel
--

Do not meddle in the affairs of dragons,
for thou art crunchy and taste good with Ketchup!

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Message: 11
Date: Mon, 29 Oct 2007 16:55:32 -0500
From: Les Mikesell
Subject: Re: nvidia
To: tim@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx, For users of Fedora

Message-ID: <472656D4.6030405@xxxxxxxxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed

Timothy Murphy wrote:

>> _If_ you are Alan Cox or some number of
>> hackers with equivalently specialized skills that you could probably
>> count on one hand, having the source code available might be of some
>> value when the supplied binary doesn't work. The rest of us report the
>> bug and wait, and again in my experience over the last couple of
>> decades, the closed source providers are at least equally responsive in
>> this scenario.
>
> Really?
> When did you last get a positive response from a closed source provider?

In the windows/mac worlds, I can't say that I've needed anything in
years that wasn't already done and available on the vendor's web site.

--
Les Mikesell
lesmikesell@xxxxxxxxx



------------------------------

Message: 12
Date: Mon, 29 Oct 2007 17:07:52 -0500
From: Les Mikesell
Subject: Re: nvidia
To: tim@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx, For users of Fedora

Message-ID: <472659B8.8060900@xxxxxxxxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed

Timothy Murphy wrote:
>
>> The difference is
>> that closed source OS's rarely change their driver interfaces, so it
>> would be extremely unusual for something that already works and I have
>> put into production to suddenly fail due to an update.
>
> I find this an astonishing assertion.
> Surely the Linux kernel interface changes reasonably often?

I think you misunderstood. I said closed source - as opposed to Linux -
doesn't change driver interfaces often. With Linux the kernel changes
continuously but it is up to the distribution what is shipped. RHEL
maintains something stable. Fedora doesn't.

>> In fedora, this
>> has been a regular occurrence.
>
> Such as?

Firewire disk drives are my favorite example. The MPT scsi controllers
on IBM servers and some Dells have also failed to work with several
fedora kernels. And these are all open source that can't even stay
compatible with itself. I know better than to waste my time using
fedora with anything that isn't open source - even vmware.

--
Les Mikesell
lesmikesell@xxxxxxxxx



------------------------------

Message: 13
Date: Mon, 29 Oct 2007 23:15:22 +0100
From: Sebastian Vahl
Subject: The KDE-SIG needs (your) help
To: fedora-devel-list@xxxxxxxxxx, fedora-desktop-list@xxxxxxxxxx,
fedora-art-list@xxxxxxxxxx, fedora-docs-list@xxxxxxxxxx,
fedora-list@xxxxxxxxxx, fedora-test-list@xxxxxxxxxx
Message-ID: <200710292315.23149.ml@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"

This is a request for participation:
The KDE-SIG [1] is atm lacking active contributors. And we really need some
help in doing our job to provide a good KDE version in Fedora - especially
with the upcoming KDE 4.0 and the inclusion in Fedora 9.

If you don't know how you could help us here is a list (which is also in the
wiki):

* Packagers: There are so many interesting packages that are not yet packaged
for Fedora. Package it to improve the user experience.

* Reviewers: Only a few persons are doing the kde-related reviews. Help us
reviewing so that more packages could be included.

* Testers: If you love KDE use the development version or the updates-testing
repository and report bugs, bugs, bugs, request enhancements or features. We
need your feedback to improve KDE.

* Bugs: Become a BugZapper and help us with kde-related bugs.

* Documentation writers: The documentation (esp. the DesktopUserGuide) is
GNOME-centered. Help us to provide an equivalent for KDE.

* Release Notes: The few people that are working on the new KDE-Spin are quite
busy with development issues. If you want to help us in writing the release
notes for the next version of Fedora we would give you all the info you need.

* Wiki: Maintain http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/KDE and keep it updated with
end user information.

* Artists: To provide a matching theme for nodoka-metacity-theme and provide
an unified desktop experience.

But this is not a complete list. If you're interested in making KDE in Fedora
better, you're more than welcome.


The list of participants in the wiki is atm not a list of active contributors.
When setting up the wiki the only demand was an interest in KDE to be listed
on this page. This list would be changed in the future to be culled down to
the list of active (or reactivated) participants. This has become necessarely
because there are only (less or more) 3 active contributors atm (plus Than
Ngo). But the list indicates that there are enough people helping with KDE.


If you are interested in joining the KDE-SIG please add your name to this
list, answer to this mail, join us in #fedora-kde at freenode or attend the
weekly KDE-SIG-Meetings (every tuesday 17:00 UTC). I will also add a topic to
the agenda of the meeting next week to introduce new contributors. [2]
The attendance at the SIG-Meetings is of course not required. But this way we
would know of each other. And they are also the main place of discussing the
next steps in the development (besides fedora-devel-list).


If you have any further questions please answer to this mail or write me
directly. And be sure: If your are willing to help you're welcome (regardless
of your skills). :)

Sebastian


[1] http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/SIGs/KDE
[2] http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/SIGs/KDE/Meetings/2007-11-06
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Message: 14
Date: Mon, 29 Oct 2007 17:20:03 -0500
From: Les Mikesell
Subject: Re: nvidia
To: For users of Fedora

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