Red Hat lives forever! I'm setting up a text only V 7.3 for my 2nd graders class. I found a site that still has updates with apt. On Tue. a bunch of 2nd graders will think it must be an old broken Mac. -----Original Message----- From: fedora-list-bounces@xxxxxxxxxx [mailto:fedora-list-bounces@xxxxxxxxxx]On Behalf Of Bill Davidsen Sent: Sunday, November 11, 2007 6:08 PM To: For users of Fedora Subject: Re: Fedora lifetime and stability Serguei Miridonov wrote: > On Thursday 08 November 2007, John Summerfield wrote: >> Mikkel L. Ellertson wrote: >>> Serguei Miridonov wrote: >>>> However, before starting a discussion about this I would >>>> like to ask, if this topic was discussed earlier. >> To death. >> >> I'm sure it was >> >>>> but can somebody point me any deep analysis which really >>>> proves that current one year lifetime and half-year >>>> release period is the best for Fedora? >>> Here is a section of a post on Fedora Philosophy: >>> >>> The Fedora project does not pretend to be *production >>> server* centric. It does not even pretend to be >>> *production server* friendly. The personality of the >>> Fedora project is fast paced, (b)leading edge, leaving the >>> past behind quickly. It is a great proving ground or test >>> bed for current technologies. It is fun. It will never >>> have the stability or extended support that a server class >>> distribution does. >> Translated, "rolling beta." In return for your access to the >> latest technology, you can expect cuts and bruises. > > Then don't name "rolling beta" as stable because it is > missleading. > >> If you want a longer life, go look at other solutions. > > Look, I'm running Linux since 1994 starting with Slackware then > switched to Red Hat and Fedora. I have Linux on both home > computer and in my office. I always liked the fact that with > every new release the system became more and more stable and > usefull. That was before F7. Upgrading from FC5 to F7 wasn't > disaster, of course, but this was just because of my knowledge > of the system - using Linux more than 12 years makes > difference. USB drives did not mount, no problem, we'll do it > manually. Kernel did not park heads before switching power of > laptop off, well, modern drives use their kinetic energy to > remove heads. I could imagine the perception of inexperienced > user who for some reason decides to try Fedora as his first > (and last?) Linux distribution. > > In July-August most F7 problems were resolved (for my system, > at least). The normal life has just started, but now F7 has > only 6-7 months to live? This is what makes me just rise my > hand and ask. > > My remarks are not to offense developers and maintainers. I > myself was a maintainer of a kernel driver and I know what it > cost to keep things alive. I started this thread having just > one thought in mind - improving Fedora, at least, to return > the stability that Red Hat and Fedora had in the past. This is > why I suggest to have one release an year, allow more time for > testing before the release and extend the lifetime at least > for two years. > > If someone wants new and cool bleading edge software, there is > always a testing version of Fedora, so long term lifetime > isn't a problem. Even some newest packages can be backported > to current test updates. > > Actually, I'm not going to continue this discussion. I wanted > just to share my thoughts. I know that I'm not alone. For > example, here > http://www.oreillynet.com/linux/blog/2007/03/where_fedora_went_wrong.html > is also said enough, on both sides. And my opinion is that > Fedora will only win if testing period and release lifetime > will be at least twice longer. Having just seen such a problem in FC8, I have to agree to some extent. Solving the problems by removing and reinstalling packages is my usual solution, although I have had to manually run some RPMs, because the rpm package ignores the force option and insists it knows better than the user. I do see that as a failing of the package, at some point there needs to be a way to move forward. But while I might like to see longer support (as in security fixes, at least) for each release, I fail to see how Fedora can "win" by doing so. It's hard to see what having more people not paying for the product does as a benefit, while the only reason I update most of my systems is security, and if I could get security releases for two years, I would be testing less new stuff. There was some mumbling about value to stockholders in this thread, I'm a stockholder and I think that FC is a reasonably cost effective testing program for new stuff. That justifies its existance, and I think we have to be content with that. Note: I don't see Fedora and Ubuntu competing for the same users, so there's not much "win" there, if I didn't run Fedora I'd probably go to CentOS for most things, certainly for servers. -- Bill Davidsen <davidsen@xxxxxxx> "We have more to fear from the bungling of the incompetent than from the machinations of the wicked." - from Slashdot -- fedora-list mailing list fedora-list@xxxxxxxxxx To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-list
