Matthew Saltzman wrote:
On Wed, 2007-09-05 at 23:48 -0500, Mike McCarty wrote:They are selling copies of the book on-line, and then permitting download of same. Later, if you want to read your own copy on your own disc, you have to let them know about it, and get permission. This is invasion of privacy. It also prohibits one from disposing of one's own copy as one sees fit. Part of ownership of property is the right to dispose of it as one sees fit. Also, should they run out of money, their website will go down, and then nobody can read his own copy of the book on his own disc.It's not mere quibbling to point out that what they are selling is subscription access to online materials (including a copy of the book), valid as long as you are paid up. That's not the same as a copy of the book that you then own. If the site goes down, then they owe you a
The "copy" I want to look at is on my disc, not on theirs.
refund for the unused portion of your subscription. But if they can't offer the service, they won't continue to collect money from you either. And they won't come take away your printed copy.
I don't think we have much difference of opinion over what it is, nor whether it is, or ought to be, legal. It isn't something I want to pay for. [snip]
Copyright law permits one to make one copy for one's own use, and carry and use it anywhere one wants to go. These schemes prevent that from being done. They are intentionally interfering with rights recognized for centuries for individuals to use and dispose of their own property. I don't want to own their work. I want to own my copy. They don't want me to own my own copy. I don't understand why anyone wouldn't understand MY position on this.I do understand. I simply point out that that's not the product they are selling in this case. There's no misrepresentation here. If the product they are selling is not the product you want, you don't have to buy it.
Yes. But in the particular example I gave, where truly defective discs are being sold (may be a burn spot, or one where the bits burnt to the CDROM represent an uncorrectable error, or whatever) unless the box says "The Disc contained in this box is DEFECTIVE" then it IS FRAUD. (IMO, IANAL, AFIAK this has not been tested in court, YMMV)
How about this: I'll sell you a shovel for $20, but each time you want
[snip]
How about THAT for a deal, eh? How many shovels can I sign you up for? Be sure to tell all your friends about the good deal I have on shovels!Well, that would be silly. I can go elsewhere and buy a shovel without those restrictions for a similar price. Who needs you?
Exactly my point. And if we all say that, then this silly attempt to prevent people from making copies of copyright material they have purchased the use of will go away.
Now, if you offered the same deal for access to a backhoe (and I happened to need a backhoe every so often), we might have a starting point for negotiations.
Nope. That's called "rental". That's a whole different concept. I don't rent books, especially not reference material, and don't want to. Do you? I do rent movies on occasion. Also, the information I download via my ISP and which is on my disc REMAINS there for my own use and enjoyment. My ISP doesn't charge me for using my own disc after I've done the download. [snip]
And I'm not defending the DMCA in any way, shape, or form.
Didn't think so. If you want to argue along the lines you suggest,
then the appropriate model is rental, and as I said I don't want
to rent my reference books. I'm suggesting to others that they
shouldn't want to, either.
Any way you look at it, I don't want it, and hope it dies as
a business model for reference information. Entertainment information
is a different matter altogether. Anyway, my point was that
this is an INAPPROPRIATE business model for this type of info,
and I intend, and recommend others, to boycott it.
Mike
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