On Tue, 2007-02-06 at 03:35 -0500, Ric Moore wrote: > > You said "refuse", he never -refused- to do that. Bugzilla is a pain to > use for a newbie and even a flatworm turns from pain if you light a > match next to it. So, more often than not, I'll question my own problem > to the list to air it, to make sure I'm not putting in a bugzilla report > that might be my own ignorant fault and a waste of a developers time. We > all hate to look stupid instead of just ignorant. Teamwork is not a bad > thing, is it? > > I hate to see aggressive attacks, "blaming" and "shoulding" are > considered aggressive, not assertive. "Name calling", "Labeling", "My > Way or the Highway", "Failure of others to live up to my expectations", > these are all common elements of criminal thinking (common thought > patterns leading to an offense) and are best avoided by careful > consideration and taking perspectives. > > It's really sad to see someone whose "shoulding" covertly escalated to > take on a darker form, and found himself standing in a chow line > blinking and wondering just how the hell he got there. It's sad as Hell. > And, the road to there is wide. We had one guy that just got out after > doing 38 years for murdering his best friend for "Not doin' what I > said." He would have been much better off had he understood that a > simple "stop-switch" would have saved him that conviction 38 years ago. > His one "should" got him that time. Imagine never knowing what an ATM > card was for or how to use it. He's a really old man who has missed much > now, all because someone else didn't live up to his expectations. > > So, this was on my mind while processing all the "shoulds" I'm reading > on the Bugzilla issue. So, this is not pointed solely at you, Gilboa, > but others as well. It's hard for me not to do it too, I am just as > guilty. But I'm pointing out that it is considered not good nor healthy > to do. Ric ---- Fedora - in fact Linux in all flavors is a participatory process and the user takes ownership of the software once he installs it. The user has access to 100% of the source code and is free to fix anything he sees that needs fixing. Of course the user operating solely at his own solutions does not necessarily benefit the other users of the software. Since Fedora specifically or Linux generally are participatory in nature, the user is encouraged to provide feedback to the developers (which is generally not Fedora) and to the packagers (which is always Fedora) whether it is a bug that stops a program from executing or simply a 'request for enhancement', perhaps as minimal as changing default behavior of a program and all are valid if not important to report. Often it is difficult to ascertain whether the problem needs to be reported to Fedora or to the upstream developer but the packager is often the best person to decide so reporting issues on bugzilla is the recommended method and if the packager feels that the issue is worthy of reporting to the upstream developer, he is most certainly going to do that. As to the difficulty of reporting bugs in bugzilla, it's not difficult to do but I think most people are afraid of reporting bugs to bugzilla because they lack confidence in their knowledge of the software and processes involved and thus feel as though they cannot adequately report their problems so they don't bother trying. After you've reported bugs and participate in the process, you gain appreciation for the methodology and become an active participant in the process that improves Linux / Fedora. There is no reason to fear as you put it..."to make sure I'm not putting in a bugzilla report that might be my own ignorant fault and a waste of a developers time" because the developer will simply post a quick reply and close the ticket. Following up on your logic about not reporting on bugzilla..."We all hate to look stupid instead of just ignorant." This statement suggests that it is preferable to looking stupid on this list as opposed to looking stupid on bugzilla. There is little room to coddle people who rant on this list and don't report their issues to bugzilla since it is specifically bugzilla that was created for fixing problems with the software. Ranting on this list doesn't get things fixed and reporting to bugzilla is designed just for that purpose. Craig
