I'm running FC5 with whatever version of XFCE that get's installed with it (4.2.3 as I recall). I want it as stripped as possible, so remove the taskbar by killing it, do some minor adjustments to the main bar, exit out and save the settings to lock them in, then restart xfce. Every time I've done this it's fine for 1 or 2 logins (and I never save settings on exit after that) but sooner or later I'll start xfce and can "see" the main bar flash on for a second and then it's gone, never to return. The only way to get it back is to delete ~/.cache and .config, start all over, and in a few restarts the same behaviour happens again. I ran xfce under Mandriva for many months this way, never a problem, as I recall the same version. Any ideas? This has happened under 2 completely separate FC5 installs on the same machine. Ed Burlington Canada