Tim wrote: > Well, you might argue that you're not making an ISO image, just that ISO > is part of the file name. You'd just be making a "raw" copy of the bits > read off the disc. As I understand it, there's more differences between CD-ROMs and audio CDs than just the filesystem. When audio CDs were developed, it was considered that the loss of a very occasional bit was acceptable. The CD player would know that it was dealing with an audio wave, and could interpolate the missing data from surrounding samples. The result would not be "right", or "perfect", but it would almost certainly be undetectable. So although the designers added error-checking and correcting codes that could deal with scratches on the CD, they designed them to only *correct* a few "wrong" bits per ECC block, but to *detect* when there were considerably more errors. [1] CD-ROMs are different -- you can't interpolate with zipfiles, or other data files. So the ECC algorithms were designed to fix as many errors as possible, and there was a lot more "redundant" data put on the disk for the use of the ECC algorithms. [2] So, although CDs sample at 44.1kHz in 16 bit, which comes to 44.1 kHz * 16 bit / 8 bits/byte * 2 channels = 176.4 kB/s = 172 KiB/s, single-speed CD-ROM drives only read 150 KiB/s. The difference is the extra "redundant" data. The point is that neither in audio nor in data mode do you see the *real* raw bits read off the disc. And /dev/hdc is already "cooked" (i.e. not raw) enough that you have to treat it differently if you want audio data. James. [1] In many cases, the ECC would allow the drive to calculate the most probable "right" data, but the specification insists that interpolation be used instead, because the results of getting the ECC wrong are a lot more noticeable than the result of using interpolation. [2] ECC works by placing the results of certain calculations on the disk along with the data. The CD drive repeats these calculations, and can then work out whether the calculations are correct, whether the data has been modified, or whether the results have been modified. If the data has been modified, the drive can then calculate what the original data was. I probably ought to point out that neighbouring bits from a sample are placed on the CD a long way apart. That means a scratch will slightly damage a lot of data (and the ECC can then recover that data), rather than obliterate a few bytes. -- E-mail: james@ | "In these troubled times, it's always refreshing to see a aprilcottage.co.uk | major company concentrating on vital issues. It would be | even more refreshing if Compaq tried it for once." | -- The Inquirer