Okay, I think the "don't install on production systems" point has been made loud enough. Let's not forget that there is no magic line which separates production servers from playboxes. Some uses will be in that gray area, where it's not quite production or mission critical, but it still gives you grief if it breaks. There's a whole continuous range of "importance", and that's the call of the user/administrator, which I'm sure Steven is well aware of now. Regardless, FC4 is not working for him. He may have started the thread wrong by coming out claiming all of FC4 was junk, but for him at least, it is. Anyway, it's safe to say that during any OS release upgrade there will be some systems which fail. Fedora is certainly not exempt. But I've also seen upgrades of major high-priced proprietary Unixes fail occasionally, and certainly many other Linux distros also have occasional upgrade failures. FC may be slightly worse than others because of it's pace, but it's not exactly fair to just say "go away and use something else, you should've known better". What we on the Fedora list (many of whom participate in the Fedora process) need to do is to ignore the poster's emotional overreaction and get down to helping him solve the problem. * * * Anyway, Steven, if this is truly critical and you can't wait to figure this out, you may want to back up files and reinstall FC3. There is no way to downgrade that I know of. If you had partitioned your disks with LVM you may be able to just install a partial FC3 alongside which you let you run until the FC4 issues are figured out. About the Dell systems...yes, Dell has a long history of producing BIOSes that are very un-Linux friendly, especially with some of the video drivers. The newer Linux drivers like i810 as you've found seem to deal with them better on some models. Ultimately this is most likely a Dell issue as they have flawed BIOSes, but as you've done your homework on bugzilla, it seems you have resolved that problem. Turning off selinux was the first step for your other problems. At some point you'll want to turn it back on in non-enforcing mode to see what would have broke before it actually does. I don't know Majordomo (I'm a Python and hence Mailman user), but there should be a way to enable some sort of Perl debugging in it. Perhaps if you describe what the problem actually is better. Is it random or repeatable. Does it depend on any of the inputs, or on the recipient addresses? Are the mail headers intact? Can you capture the messages in the sendmail queue (or are you using something other than sendmail?)? If you're experienced enough, perhaps you can download the official Majordomo code itself and try building it anew. And I think the output of strace may still have some useful information in it. Deron Meranda
