On Monday, 26 of November 2007, Adrian Bunk wrote:
> On Mon, Nov 26, 2007 at 01:04:25AM +0100, Rafael J. Wysocki wrote:
> > On Monday, 26 of November 2007, Adrian Bunk wrote:
> > > On Mon, Nov 26, 2007 at 12:00:28AM +0100, Rafael J. Wysocki wrote:
> > > > On Sunday, 25 of November 2007, Adrian Bunk wrote:
> > > >...
> > > > > I don't care whether that's done with Bugzilla, some email based bug
> > > > > tracker like the Debian bug tracker, someone putting emails manually
> > > > > into some bug tracker like you are doing, or whatever else.
> > > >
> > > > That last solution doesn't scale very well ...
> > > >
> > > > How about using the system in which it's possible to report bugs using both
> > > > email and a web interface?
> > > >
> > > > We can request that the address of the bug tracker be added to the Cc lists of
> > > > bug reports sent by email and we can make it resend reports filed with it to
> > > > the appropriate mailing lists and with the appropriate email headers. This is
> > > > technically doable.
> > >
> > > You are trying to solve something that is not a problem.
> >
> > It _is_ a problem, because many bug are reported using email and not really
> > tracked. The ones that I manually put into the Bugzilla are the tip of the
> > iceberg (and BTW I'd prefer not to have to do that manually).
> >
> > Every bug reported by email and not responded to by the right people, that is
> > not a recent regression, is currently lost. I'd like to avoid that, if possible.
>
> This is solved by many other projects by asking the submitter to open a
> bug for the issue when he sends it in an email.
>
> The submitter then simply copies the information from his email to his
> newly opened bug in the bug tracker.
>
> -> no problem
>
> > > It does not matter which medium we choose for getting bug reports.
> >
> > [Well, you said that we should use a web interface for that. ;-)]
>
> I said a web interface is not worse than via email.
> And it's enough.
>
> (And I e.g. wouldn't oppose using the Debian bug tracker where the web
> interface only allows reading and everything has to be done via email
> if all kernel maintainers would agree to use this.)
>
> > No, it doesn't, as long as the bug reports reach the right place. Now, the
> > question is what's that.
> >
> > IMO, ideally, for each subsystem there should be a mailing list to send bug
> > reports to. The Bugzilla should forward the reports to these lists. On every
> > such list there should be (at least) one person responsible for responding to
> > the bug reports, if no one else responds first, and for forwarding the reports
> > to the appropriate developers. This person should also be responsible for
> > monitoring the status of each bug report sent to his/her list.
>
> After all discussions about crazy bug tracker features we are back at
> the real problem:
We started to discuss them, because you argued that the Bugzilla in its current
shape was sufficient, which I didn't agree with and tried to give some
arguments.
> Where do we find the tree these people grow on?
That's a good question, but either we find these people, or we'll start losing
users at growing rates.
I'm afraid that's already happening ...
> > _Every_ bug report sent (including invalid ones) should be recorded in a bug
> > tracking system (be it the Bugzilla or whatever else) along with all of it's
> > history (at least, refernces to the bug's history should be stored), no matter
> > how it's been handled. Moreover, a bug can only be resolved as "fixed" if
> > there's a pointer to the exact commit fixing it in the bug's history.
>
> And back we are at crazy bug tracker features...
No, they are not bug tracker features, but parts of a process that I think we
should have in place.
> > > The only thing that matters is that we get bug reports resolved within a
> > > reasonable amount of time.
> >
> > I'm not sure if that's generally possible:
> > - What about the bugs that take 2 weeks or more to reproduce?
> > - What about the bugs that we _don't_ _know_ how to fix?
>
> We will never get 100% of all bugs fixed.
>
> Let's get back to the fact that we have many bug reports that could be
> fixed within a reasonable amount of time but are not.
Do you have specific examples?
Rafael
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