Re: pcmcia ioctl removal

[Gabriel C <nix.or.die@googlemail.com>]

Willy Tarreau wrote:
> On Tue, May 01, 2007 at 05:16:13AM -0400, Robert P. J. Day wrote:
>   
> > On Tue, 1 May 2007, Christoph Hellwig wrote:
> >
> >     
> > > >  pcmcia-delete-obsolete-pcmcia_ioctl-feature.patch
> > > >         
> > > ...
> > >
> > >       
> > > > Dominik is busy.  Will probably re-review and send these direct to Linus.
> > > >         
> > > The patch above is the removal of cardmgr support.  While I'd love
> > > to see this cruft gone it definitively needs maintainer judgement on
> > > whether they time has come that no one relies on cardmgr anymore.
> > >       
> > since i was the one who submitted the original patch to remove that
> > stuff, let me make an observation.
> >
> > when i submitted a patch to remove, for instance, the traffic shaper
> > since it's clearly obsolete, i was told -- in no uncertain terms --
> > that that couldn't be done since there had been no warning about its
> > impending removal.
> >
> > fair enough, i can accept that.
> >
> > on the other hand, the features removal file contains the following:
> >
> > ...
> > What:   PCMCIA control ioctl (needed for pcmcia-cs [cardmgr, cardctl])
> > When:   November 2005
> > ...
> >
> > in other words, the PCMCIA ioctl feature *has* been listed as obsolete
> > for quite some time, and is already a *year and a half* overdue for
> > removal.
> >
> > in short, it's annoying to take the position that stuff can't be
> > deleted without warning, then turn around and be reluctant to remove
> > stuff for which *more than ample warning* has already been given.
> > doing that just makes a joke of the features removal file, and makes
> > you wonder what its purpose is in the first place.
> >
> > a little consistency would be nice here, don't you think?
> >     
>
> No, it just shows how useless this file is. What is needed is a big
> warning during usage, not a file that nobody reads. Facts are :
>
>   - 90% of people here do not even know that this file exists
>   - 80% of the people who know about it do not consult it on a regular basis
>   - 80% of those who consult it on a regular basis are not concerned
>   - 75% of statistics are invented
>
> => only 20% of 20% of 10% of those who read LKML know that one feature
>    they are concerned about will soon be removed = 0.4% of LKML readers.
>
> If you put a warning in kernel messages (as I've seen for a long time
> about tcpdump using obsolete AF_PACKET), close to 100% of the users
> of the obsolete code who are likely to change their kernels will notice
> it.
>
>   

Hmm ? There is already a fat warning in dmesg for a long time now.


snip

...

pcmcia: Detected deprecated PCMCIA ioctl usage from process: discover.
pcmcia: This interface will soon be removed from the kernel; please 
expect breakage unless you upgrade to new tools.
pcmcia: see 
http://www.kernel.org/pub/linux/utils/kernel/pcmcia/pcmcia.html for details.

...


> I'm sorry for your patch which may get delayed a lot. You would spend
> fewer time stuffing warnings in areas affected by scheduled removal.
>
> BTW, I'm not even against the end of cardmgr support, it's just that
> I don't know what the alternative is, and I suspect that many users
> do not either. A big warning would have brought them to google who
> would have provided them with suggestions for alternatives.
>
> Willy
>
>
>   

Regards,

Gabriel

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